Property tax relief is coming to Elk County...

[ddurbin]

This isn't to discuss the pros or cons of the program being discussed--just to question part of Ross's earlier post.  Is there really a 60,000 sq. ft. house being built (or already built) in NE Elk County, with the prospect of as many as 3 more being talked about?  What's up?  Are Jed Clampett's descendents all coming to Elk to settle?  That would mean new people are moving into the area, giving you some of the population growth you've been seeking wouldn't it?  Or are these being built by all the "Old Guard"?  How about it, Patriot--that's up in your and Commissioner Ritz's area of the county.  Can you substantiate any of this?

[Ross]

Well Ross, you obviously did not read the pdf document that you linked to, or you would have easily seen that Elk County did not copy Meade County's program outright.  According to what you have posted, the Meade County program is for ten years, Elk County's is for only five, meaning any increases to the tax base built under the program will be fully taxed, no rebates, in year six, not year eleven like Meade County.

I think you ass/u/me to much!
Where did I say they copied word for word.
Did I not say, I believe they copied?
Thanks for confirming that!
Did I say, they did not change it up?
Show me where, I said that?

Check out these figures taken from Meade County NEIGHBORHOOD REVITALIZATION PROGRAM which I believe our county copied from. it is posted at their web site. http://www.meadeco.org/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=x2FAnzZDoIc%3d&tabid=3588

So, what is the county hiding?  our county web site?

So, why isn't the proposed plan posted on our very expensive County web site instead of on Amazon?

Why doesn't show some figures like Meade County or other counties do?

What are they hiding?

Why do our county officials need you to speak for them?
Are you an insider on the program?

Anyone can juggle numbers, even me, and either one of us can be wrong, right?

And, I am sure we are talking much larger numbers in the rebate, then you are talking or it would not be worth while, now would it

Meade County's program collects 43.35% of what would be due over the ten year period in tax not rebated and administration fees.

Over the same ten year period, Elk County's program will collect 77.64% in tax not rebated and administration fees.

On other words, over a ten year period, Meade County gives away $56.65 out of every $100 that would be due, while Elk County only gives away $22.36 out of every $100.

Anyone with any sense can see that those figures are a joke?

If the county can afford to give away money (your words), let's give some to each and every taxpaying landowner?

If there is going to be a limit on the low end (which I don't think is necessary), I think there should be a high end limit, (which should be of great importance). I'v got an idea, lets just make the bottom $2500 and the top $10,000 as a pilot program. Then if that shows some financial justification raise it to say $2500 with a top of $20,000. One year for each and then see if there is any change in the County economical or population situation?

Oh, I just met someone that just moved into a house right here in Elk County, how about that?
They moved here from over by Girard? Did they do it for an incentive package?
I bet they didn't?
It's got to be a large growth spurt for Elk County, doesn't it?

Which program is better for the county coffers, the one Meade County enacted or the one the Elk County Commissioners approved?

When did the Konnected Kounty Kommissioners approve this  NEIGHBORHOOD REVITALIZATION PROGRAM ?

It has to have at least one hearing first, and I believe it has to be published in the newspaper also before it is approved. Are you trying to make people believe it is a done deal and that they have no say in it?
Just like the $ amounts, confuse people and tell them it's not enough to worry about, is that the game?

If I'm wrong on my guestimations of super large rebate amounts, I'd like to hear about it from someone in authority or someone that is not going to tell me, I'm saying something I'm not saying.

If you have any real honest to goodness fact's please annotate them.

Thank  You!

[Ross]

This isn't to discuss the pros or cons of the program being discussed--just to question part of Ross's earlier post.  Is there really a 60,000 sq. ft. house being built (or already built) in NE Elk County, with the prospect of as many as 3 more being talked about?  What's up?  Are Jed Clampett's descendents all coming to Elk to settle?  That would mean new people are moving into the area, giving you some of the population growth you've been seeking wouldn't it?  Or are these being built by all the "Old Guard"?  How about it, Patriot--that's up in your and Commissioner Ritz's area of the county.  Can you substantiate any of this?

Do you really want more outsiders?
So you natives can say so-n-so, wasn't born here, when they address county business?
Is that the plan?

If you go back and read what I said, "I said I heard and I also, said I had not seen it."
There is no need to substantiate what I said, but it does make a point all of it's own.

Apparently that bothers you, something that large would cost the county plenty of money in property taxes!
You wouldn't want the taxpayers to know that right?

Are you suggesting that it would not be possible?

Then a cap of $50,000 would not be unreasonable, would it?

Afterall, they want a low end cap to prevent poor people from applying. right?

To me it all just stinks of a scam on the taxpayer?

Don't they talk about studies done in the plan about Elk County, but fail to show by who or when or where?

Just my humble opinion.

I have an e-mail from some prince that will send you $100,000 if you will just pay him $100 dollars in good faith. Because he wants to put the $100, 000 in a safe bank in the USofA and he will pay you $1 million for helping him do this. Or some such crap like that. Any takers?

[ddurbin]

Ross,
You're the one making a lot of assumptions now.  All I was asking was whether the houses you mentioned were actually being built and/or planned.  THAT'S ALL!  I wasn't trying to pass any kind of judgement on whether that was a good thing or a bad thing.  You are the one who started critiquing it---all in the form of questions, of course.  No wonder so few people will try and discuss or respond to your posts.

[Ross]

Ross,
You're the one making a lot of assumptions now.  All I was asking was whether the houses you mentioned were actually being built and/or planned.  THAT'S ALL!  I wasn't trying to pass any kind of judgement on whether that was a good thing or a bad thing.  You are the one who started critiquing it---all in the form of questions, of course.  No wonder so few people will try and discuss or respond to your posts.

Good point Mr. Durbin.

However I did not assume a 6,000 sq ft home, I said I heard about one and stated I had not seen it. I also stated that I heard there were possibly plans for a few more. Not assuming, but pointing out what I heard?

But are we to assume it isn't possible?

As far as the NEIGHBORHOOD REVITALIZATION PROGRAM there are no real facts in the program?
It doesn't give all  the who, what, where, when and hows, now does it ?

For instance who did the study that Elk County will benefit from the program and how ?

Why have a low end cap? I assume to keep the less finacially fortunate out of the program ?

Personally, I think a top end cap would be far more important ?

Why did one Commissioner want an even higher low end cap?

Yes sir, all that is left is assumption by the general public.

And you seem to have a serius problem with answering questions?

Are you offended that a persons asks questions to learn what is going on?

Or is it because you would rather have accusations, so that you might be able to sue the person?

Are questions hard to answer truthfully?

It it perhaps easier to run a scam if a person doesn't ask questions?

What is the real problem with questions?

[ddurbin]

quote from Ross:
"I heard there is a new home in the North East corner of Elk County of approximately 60,000 square feet. No I haven't seen it, but just suppose there is! What do you suppose the approximate ten year rebate on it be would? But based on $76.44 per sq ft the cost would be $4,586,400 and that would be on the cheap side IMHO.

My best estimate because, I don't have access to needed information would be approximately $105,708.87 tax per year. Over a period of 10 years, it would be approximately a loss of $504,190.57 in county property tax.

I understand there may be as many as three more homes of the equivalent size that are being planned."

This is what got my attention.  I found it hard to imagine that a 60,000 sq. ft house was being built in Elk County, with the possibility of as many as three more of equivalent size.  Possible, yes----probable, I wondered.  If in actuality they are only 6,000 sq. ft., then I can more readily accept that as being possible and probable.

[Ross]

This is what got my attention.  I found it hard to imagine that a 60,000 sq. ft house was being built in Elk County, with the possibility of as many as three more of equivalent size.  Possible, yes----probable, I wondered.  If in actuality they are only 6,000 sq. ft., then I can more readily accept that as being possible and probable.

Oops, Ya can't imagine a typographical error!
Or better yet what we called in the Navy, a brain fart!

I'll fix that, now that you pointed it out and thank you.

[Patriot]

Is there really a 60,000 sq. ft. house being built (or already built) in NE Elk County, with the prospect of as many as 3 more being talked about?  What's up?  Are Jed Clampett's descendents all coming to Elk to settle?

I'm aware of one large home being built. Very large by local standards, but 60,000 sq ft... not based on what I've seen.  More contemplated, don't know.  Substantial population growth?  Probably not.  Increased employment, industrial/commercial expansion?  Not sure, but doubtful.  The Clampett family fortune arriving in droves to raise families?  Can't say, but it looks more like a retirement/recreational opportunity for someone. Folks who will spend vast sums at stores locally thereby feeding the local economy... highly unlikely.  

[flintauqua]

Quote from: flintauqua on Today at 02:17:25 am

Meade County's program collects 43.35% of what would be due over the ten year period in tax not rebated and administration fees.

Over the same ten year period, Elk County's program will collect 77.64% in tax not rebated and administration fees.

On other words, over a ten year period, Meade County gives away $56.65 out of every $100 that would be due, while Elk County only gives away $22.36 out of every $100.


Quote from: Ross on Yesterday at 10:41:28 pm


Anyone with any sense can see that those figures are a joke?

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Ross, those figures are not a joke!  I did the math, then let the computer do the math, and guess what - those are the real numbers!!!!

The Elk County program collects over three-fourths of what would be due over a ten year period.  Meade County's program collects less than half over the same time period.

The only reason you want people to believe those numbers are a joke is because they don't fit your preconcieved notion that any and every thing the commissioners do is evil.

Many counties in Kansas have wind farms.  Show me one that has a PILOT that generates as much revenue per unit for the respective county as Elk County's does.  (Don't go spouting about Enid, because the underlying facts are not the same, and you know it.  Oklahoma puts wind farms on the tax rolls automatically, in Kansas PILOTs have to be negotiated since the wind farm is exempt from property taxes by the state legislature.)

Elk County looked at what Meade County and several others throughout the state have done to increase the tax base.  I show you that Elk County modified Meade County's program in a way that keeps a far greater percentage of taxes due in the county coffers, and you tell me the numbers are a joke.

More revenue per unit of size from a wind farm than any other in the state of Kansas, and a tax rebate program to spur growth in the tax base that keeps a much higher percentage of the taxes due.  Sounds like the Commissioners and the people they have had working on these projects over the past several years have been doing a pretty good job compared to their peers in other counties.

[readyaimduck]

The only reason you want people to believe those numbers are a joke is because they don't fit your preconcieved notion that any and every thing the commissioners do is evil.

That would be true 3 years ago. 
One new commissioner and now things are changing?  It's hard to keep a thought alive when facts or suppositions intervene.  More facts people, not faux news.

Start a new slate with comissioners, and let the people decide, then chart the progress.  Old grudges are just that.  a grudge.

There are opinions and those are fine and accepted.  There are facts, based on legitaimate facts.
If you have an opinion, that is great....let it be on a fact, documented and observiable.  Otherwise is it just that:  an opinion (no, don't bring on the ass/u/me thing joke)

I can do the math.  I can see through a smoke screen.  I just can't see my future.....>sighs>
ready