Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod Reacts to Birth Control Mandate

[Catwoman]

Sorry to disabuse you of your hardwon wisdom, Steve, but all Catholics and Protestants are Judeo-Christian.  As far as Catholics running neck and neck with Islam...That moniker goes to the fanatical, Bible-thumping "Christians", not the Catholics.  I've never seen the Catholics ever dictate what their members will wear, like the Islamics do...But, I have indeed seen the extreme fanatical Christians telling their women they can't wear pants, can't cut their hair, can't wear make-up....Hell...They might as well put a burka on them.  I don't put them down for their pigheaded, backwards ways...But they sure as shooting can tell me that I'm going to Hell for being a Catholic.  Now...You want to be verbally abusive...Let's get down to brass tacks and be abusive...But first, get your facts straight.  All of us that kneel, stand, lay, talk in tongues, or dance before that Cross are ALL Christians, whether you in your backwards, pigheaded manner believe it or not.   

[srkruzich]

Sorry to disabuse you of your hardwon wisdom, Steve, but all Catholics and Protestants are Judeo-Christian.  As far as Catholics running neck and neck with Islam...That moniker goes to the fanatical, Bible-thumping "Christians", not the Catholics.  I've never seen the Catholics ever dictate what their members will wear, like the Islamics do...But, I have indeed seen the extreme fanatical Christians telling their women they can't wear pants, can't cut their hair, can't wear make-up....Hell...They might as well put a burka on them.  I don't put them down for their pigheaded, backwards ways...But they sure as shooting can tell me that I'm going to Hell for being a Catholic.  Now...You want to be verbally abusive...Let's get down to brass tacks and be abusive...But first, get your facts straight.  All of us that kneel, stand, lay, talk in tongues, or dance before that Cross are ALL Christians, whether you in your backwards, pigheaded manner believe it or not.  

Actually no they are not catwoman.  Before 1500's there was catholic and heretic. Those that weren't catholic were butchered by the catholics.  Sorry but its a fact.  There was a dual line running from the time of christ that was catholics after around 200 ad and the line of New testament church aka christian faith. True both started out as christian but the catholic church went into apostasy in around 300-400 ad. Then you have the crusades, of which the CATHOLICS not the christians took up a campaign to rid the world of heretics and muslims.  Thats a fact. It was not christians that took up this cambaign at all. They were being slaughtered by the catholics. And another fact the catholics do not call themselves christians or the ones i know don't they call themselves catholics. AND last of all, being one that came from the Catholic cult, I do that its called Catholic or the church.  Not christian church.  There are those today that try to incorporate christian with catholic but as any religious person knows calling ones self a sheep of christs does not make one a sheep of christ.

[srkruzich]

The Catechism of the Catholic Church, following historic Christian (aka Catholic) theology since the early church fathers, referes to the Catholic Church as "the universal sacrament of salvation"(CCC 774-776), and states:

The Church (aka The Catholic Church) in this world is the sacrament of salvation, the sign and instrument of the communion of God and men"(CCC 780)

Lets go over this real quick.  The Catechism is the Catholic indoctrination of its members. This is as i have been told equal to scripture according to Catholic traditions. That i know is a fact.

Secondly this doctrine, teaches that the Church (AKA Catholic Church) is the only institution that can give salvation. Thats verbatim of the catachism. It also says that THE CHURCH (aka Catholic church) IS salvation as it calls it the universal sacrament of salvation.  IT furthermore states that it is the sign and instrument of communion of God and men.  Instrument means  the vehicle the tool that gives communion.

Now we know that THE CHURCH did not exist prior to 300 ad.  Up until then it was 7 churchs in the beginning that spread out as apostolic missionary churches across the lands.  Each church was independent and had its own elders and pastor that ministered and ran things in the area.  They did not rely on a central authority to dictate doctrines and policies. They would however work together with other churchs in distribution of money food supplies and help for other churches when they were in need.

The CHURCH (AKA Catholic Church ) was created in 380ad by theodosius 1 and at the time was very powerful in rome.  It eventually grew larger and stronger in power from then on.  With the government of Rome officially recognizing it as the established religion of Rome, the Church (AKA Catholic church) got teeth to push its agenda.

MEANWHILE there was also the Missionary churchs still spreading still growing around the lands and these church's the NT church the one Christ started became targets of the Catholic church.  Its a age old story of Government oppression only this time in the name of God.

Now the point of all this is this. BY the Catholic church's OWN doctrines written down in 780 and still to this day held as the word of God, the catholics do not even believe that anyone outside of the catholic church is a christian. 

So who's christian?  Christ said follow me and i'll make you fishers of men. Rom 10:9 KJV - That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10 KJV - For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Eph 2:8 KJV - For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 KJV - Not of works, lest any man should boast.


NOWHERE does it say By the church or through the church or cause of the church.   You can't find any scripture that states that in the bible.   So unless its written in there, it ain't true.

As i said before the  "CHURCH" is a cult. It fits the profile of a cult 100%.  One of the number one thing a cult requires is that unless you are a member or if you leave, you cannot recieve salvation. the second thing is they use banishment excommunication to control their members through fear and intimidation.  Last of all they assign diety to their central figure.  (NOTE HOLY SEE)

[Catwoman]

You are a sad, small man, Steve.  The Catholic Church is no cult...It is the main stream of religion that all other religions were born out of...We came first...We were the first Judeo-Christians...And we will be here, long after nimrods like yourself are dead and buried.  So...You keep on with the keepin' on...You keep that backwards, pigheaded "knowledge" going.  You spout on...And prove me right every time anyone is unfortunate enough to have to listen to you.  And the rest of us Christians...You know...The ones who believe in an ecumenical approach to life and who realize that St. Peter isn't standing at the Pearly Gates saying, "Baptists, room  112....Catholics, room 227...Now mind you watch your step as you go past the Covenant's room, they think they're the only ones up here"...The rest of us will go on and smile as you turn over in your grave at the very thought...lol

[Catwoman]

Now, my apologies to the rest of the Forum...This is the Political board, not the Relgion board...Stevie, you might consider laying off of this witch hunt you're on (or should I say "cult" hunt) and let the rest of everyone get back to their Politics, since you don't have a leg to stand on where the Catholic Church is concerned. 

[srkruzich]

Now, my apologies to the rest of the Forum...This is the Political board, not the Relgion board...Stevie, you might consider laying off of this witch hunt you're on (or should I say "cult" hunt) and let the rest of everyone get back to their Politics, since you don't have a leg to stand on where the Catholic Church is concerned. 

Your arguing with the wrong person.  The catholic church says no one is christian unless they are catholic. SO yes st peter is at the pearly gates saying ohh your baptist, to hell with ya....oh your catholic enter...Argue with the doctrine i quoted. The catholics do not believe anyone is christian but them.
As for the comment they were there in the beginning, thats somewhat skewed. Yeah they were, in the form of independant churchs.  But they got consolidated by the government and became apostate.

also try

those who who knowingly and deliberately commit the sins of heresy(rejecting divinely revealed doctrine)
or schism (separating from the Catholic Church and/or joining a non catholic church) no salvation is possible until they return to live in the catholic unity

That is a quote directly from catholic.com 

[jprxmkt]

The catholic church says no one is christian unless they are catholic. SO yes st peter is at the pearly gates saying ohh your baptist, to hell with ya....oh your catholic enter...Argue with the doctrine i quoted. The catholics do not believe anyone is christian but them.

I am wondering what your definition of Christian is.  The Catholic definition of Christian is a friend and follower of Jesus. I have taught religion classes for nearly 20 years. Everything Catholics do is because Jesus did it. Baptism, Communion, Confession, etc.  Catholics do NOT believe you have to be Catholic to be Christian and we do NOT believe you have to be Catholic to go to Heaven.  We do believe that you should follow the teachings of Jesus.  You are completely wrong in your ideas about the Catholic Church and it is very offensive to those whom their religion is so very precious.

Back to the thread, those who said birth control/abortion is between you and your family, that is what the Churches are argueing for.  The government needs to stay out of our personal lives and we should not be forced to pay for something which we find so morally offensive   We can't just sit back and do nothing. We must fight for what we believe in.   That is the only way will remain truely free.

[Diane Amberg]

Uh, which room is for us  mild moderate tolerant Presbyterians?  
 Steve, I won't argue religious history with you, but since all of that we read in the Bible was translated from the ancient and errors are still found and whole books were tossed out, it seems very insensitive to tell anyone they are wrong or wronger than anyone else.
May I assume you are not a Mason?
By the way, you know perfectly well I was not advocating the murder of any children and I'm surprised at you suggesting such a thing! Come ride that ambulance with me and see how we care for all God's children when 9-11 is called. We don't judge any of them, ever. I was stating fact, not personal opinion.
I taught the pre hospital childbirth block in the National EMT course for more than 30 years and we had to tell and show all the bad stuff too, not just how to help the mother deliver that adorable 9 month 8 pound chubby cheeked angel.  It can be really heart wrenching and I'll leave it at that. Know this, our EMTs are of all religious faiths and we treat all religious faiths. Did you know we can even Baptize if it is wanted by the family?  I've done it!

[srkruzich]

Uh, which room is for us  mild moderate tolerant Presbyterians?  
 Steve, I won't argue religious history with you, but since all of that we read in the Bible was translated from the ancient and errors are still found and whole books were tossed out, it seems very insensitive to tell anyone they are wrong or wronger than anyone else.
May I assume you are not a Mason?
By the way, you know perfectly well I was not advocating the murder of any children and I'm surprised at you suggesting such a thing! Come ride that ambulance with me and see how we care for all God's children when 9-11 is called. We don't judge any of them, ever. I was stating fact, not personal opinion.
I taught the pre hospital childbirth block in the National EMT course for more than 30 years and we had to tell and show all the bad stuff too, not just how to help the mother deliver that adorable 9 month 8 pound chubby cheeked angel.  It can be really heart wrenching and I'll leave it at that. Know this, our EMTs are of all religious faiths and we treat all religious faiths. Did you know we can even Baptize if it is wanted by the family?  I've done it!

No i just asked a question. DIdn't accuse you of anything. You said it would cost taxpayer and I personally wanted to know if that is the reason we kill off our young as a society. 

I've seen and helped and spent time trying to make childrens lives much better, but they don't even allow someone to do that anymore.  I tried several times years ago at the local orphanage to take them fishing but the government won't allow it.  Give them some kind of normalcy to their existance. The govt doesn't give a rats ass about them, they just shove them in a home and lock em up. No wonder we get them so screwed up as adults.

I don't know why baptism is necessary to preform by a EMT.  You would have to be a ordained minister to preform it.  The point is this, the children are better off being born no matter what.  Death is the worst thing that can happen to them anything else they have a chance at life. Yeah it can be rough but i was raised that adversity builds strenght and character.

My Dad was the child of a abusive alchoholic father. Guess what. he did not abues me nor did he drink a drop his entire life. He broke that cycle.  He took beatings for his brothers actions as a child. SO he caught all the hell.  But did it defeat him Nope.  It defined him and made him stronger.  AND in the end, my grandfather asked his forgiveness and he forgave him. 

I benefitted from his sacrifice because i was never beaten. I was disclipined but not beaten.  If i needed my butt busted he was the one to do it.  And he did.  But he was always there for us and loved us.  Died in his yard while my kids were there.  At his funeral it amazed me that a man that was statistically destined to be a alchoholic/abuser/drunk was infulential in hundreds of lives, and had some of those people fly in from all over the world to attend his funeral. 

Thats what 1 child can do.  And amazingly enough society still hasn't got it.  35 million murdered over the last 40 years.

[srkruzich]

I am wondering what your definition of Christian is

Honestly it doesn't mean much these days. Everyone claims to be one.  From the ones who say they live a good life, to they never cheat lie or steal, pay their taxes, ect... they claim to be christian.
THE ONLY definition is being saved by grace through faith.  Nothing else will do.

.  The Catholic definition of Christian is a friend and follower of Jesus.

Hmmm judas was a friend and followed jesus. and he's in hell. So that definition must not be right.

I have taught religion classes for nearly 20 years. Everything Catholics do is because Jesus did it.

jesus didn't sprinkle   And Jesus doesn't say No one can come to the father but through the church.  (quoted verbatim from a catholic priest.)

Catholics do NOT believe you have to be Catholic to be Christian and we do NOT believe you have to be Catholic to go to Heaven.  

I quoted directly from catholic.com. And it specifically stated in the catachism that you cannot be saved unless your in the Catholic church. IF it is not so, then the doctrine is in error and therefore heresy.

We do believe that you should follow the teachings of Jesus.  You are completely wrong in your ideas about the Catholic Church and it is very offensive to those whom their religion is so very precious.

Can you explain the doctrine? It is pretty simple and straightforward.  IT says those who who knowingly and deliberately commit the sins of heresy(rejecting divinely revealed doctrine)
or schism (separating from the Catholic Church and/or joining a non catholic church) no salvation is possible until they return to live in the catholic unity

Back to the thread, those who said birth control/abortion is between you and your family, that is what the Churches are argueing for.  The government needs to stay out of our personal lives and we should not be forced to pay for something which we find so morally offensive   We can't just sit back and do nothing. We must fight for what we believe in.   That is the only way will remain truely free.

I agree on birth control but murder is still murder. Hasn't changed since cain slew able you know