Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod Reacts to Birth Control Mandate

[jprxmkt]

Keeping reading on catholic.com if you are truly wanting answers rather than reading a few comments and picking and choosing what you want to blow out of proportion.

[Catwoman]

Good Lord, Steve...Each church has it's own manmade dogma...YOURS INCLUDED.  It's that Church's way of insuring that they are the recipients of your monies, your time, your talent...They promote the fact that they have the key for you reaching Heaven.  The only thing that is heretical is a person claiming to be a Christian and then damning others because they aren't Christian enough for their liking.  "Judge not lest ye be judged", I think the Good Book states.  If that's the case...You're in for a shock when you do eventually head beyond that jumpin' off place.  Now...Get back to the topic at hand and quit handing out judgements on what a Catholic is and isn't...You're not in any position to judge anything to do with Christianity at all, if how you've sounded is anything to go by.

[Catwoman]

Keeping reading on catholic.com if you are truly wanting answers rather than reading a few comments and picking and choosing what you want to blow out of proportion.

And, NO, he's not going to keep reading anything that might invalidate his small, twisted, anti-Catholic stance.  After all...If he kept reading...He might just find out that Catholics are indeed Judeo-Christian and are ecumenical, to boot...We can't have that, now can we.

[Catwoman]

You know, I don't normally respond to open stupidity of this sort.  However...I have always been of the opinion that silence implies permission...And I refuse to stay silent in the face of open bullying.  The kind of backwards, pigheaded prejudice that has been exhibited here is nothing short of manure-laden bullying. 

[Teresa]

As far as Christianity is concerned,take care. History has shown that no other group has taken more lives under the guise of religion than Christianity.

True!~~

I refuse to debate or argue religion of any kind.. I won't do it!
What works for you.. works for you.. what works for me.. works for me. If it makes you a better person to yourself, your family and others around you.. then I would say, whatever it is that you are doing.. keep it up!  
Its not my business the way you worship.. nor am I ignorant to think that I am spiritually advanced enough to have the "right to judge" anyone else on anything that they do in their lives.. To put yourself in that level is very dangerous!  
Once again I say~~~ What I do and the way I do it isn't anyone's business..unless I choose to make it your business. It is between only me and my God!

Why can't people try~~just for a day, try to look past their narrow labels and judgements and see that no matter if you believe as an Agnostic, Catholic, Protestant, Lutheran, Wiccan or whatever.. you are still a human being, that in the end.. will answer to a supreme power of energy.
I won't answer to what you have done unless I have a hand in it. So if you don't have a hand in it.. leave it alone!
Enjoy your life and everything that it has to offer.. do the best you can do each and every day.. and love and laugh to the fullest. Help those around you with love and support and other means at your disposal.. but leave the judging and accusations in a buried box somewhere.
Since this is about abortion.. The women who have it on their shoulders and heart to have to make these kinds of decisions need love, care and gentle support. Its heart breaking, a lifetime of burden and something that they, the soul of their child and their God and angels will have to work through. Its not for you or anyone to make it about what YOU think is right or wrong.

I could go on and on for pages and pages.. but it is futile.. as it then becomes what I refuse to do and that is a spiritual debate against what I think is right and what you think is right.
Never works and generally all is lost because emotions prevail and thoughts shut down when that happens.

As Warph said.. it is his right to speak and voice his opinion and thoughts just as it is mine and anyone else who still lives in this country. It is also our right to read whats out there and disregard it.. take something from it or totally ignore it if we choose.

That's the wonderful thing about being a true born and breed American.. We HAVE that right!! We don't have that right to banger, ridicule and judge others.

(((((  PS~~ Warph.... Soothsayer?? ? Really??  *grinning*.. I'll look at the method of divination as a higher class of oracle.. instead of the lowly fortune teller.. LOL~~   ))))

[Diane Amberg]

I hadn't planned on touching this hot potato again, but for the sake of the many people who read this forum, I really need to address Steve's misinformation about who can Baptize.
    In an emergency, (which is why you'd have an EMT involved in the first place,) EMTs, nurses, doctors, in fact anybody, whose heart is open to it can baptize a dead or about to die newborn if they know how. I've done two and both families were very grateful.   
    Under those circumstances the person doesn't have to be ordained. This is especially important if a person lives a long way from a hospital and something goes terribly wrong,or already has. The baby has to be born, or at least the head or a significant part of the body exposed ,as in a footling presentation. If death is obvious or the situation is incompatible with life ,the baby can be Baptized with whatever water is available. A few drops are placed on the baby's head and the person says,"I baptize thee in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, amen.''
   It's no big secret and can be very comforting for the family who wants as little time as possible between the tragedy and and the baptism. With the two I did, the receiving nurse at the hospital immediately asked if we had Baptized the baby because she would have if we hadn't, if the mother wanted it done.
  If we do it, the water becomes "appropriate" (holy?) and the baptismal mark appears on the baby's soul just as if the whole formal ceremony had happened in church.In some cases when the mother dies and the baby dies shortly before birth, the baby will be removed for Baptism if the family feels very strongly about it.
There are many more examples and "what if's" but I think this is enough.
Steve knows a lot, but in a limited areas.  I don't mind that he didn't know, but it bothers me terribly that he just dismissed me and what I said as hooey.That really hurt. I'll go away now and take a break from the forum. Enjoy your vacation from me.

[srkruzich]

I didn't dismiss you diane, I don't see the significance nor the reason to baptise.  first of all a baby needs no baptism.  Religiously they are under the protection of God. Secondly without confession of salvation all baptism does is get one wet.  Third baptism does not save anyone. It is just a outward expression of a inward change and it is only 1 baptism of two that take place. The first baptism in a believer is the second they are saved. They are baptized by the holy spirit. THe second baptism is a symbolic representation of that first baptism. 

So thats why i don't understand the necessity of it being done by emts or even doctors.  But it is what it is.

[Warph]

I do believe that God knew what he was doing when he placed the San Andreas Fault through the State of California.  I wonder when He will "push the button."...Warph


California Bill Would Allow Nurses and Midwives To Perform Early Abortions

SAN DIEGO –  Nurses and midwives would be able to carry out early abortions in California, under a bill proposed by a Democratic state senator.

State Sen. Christine Kehoe (D-San Diego) wants non-doctors to be allowed to perform aspiration abortions during the first trimester, The Los Angeles Times reported Tuesday.

Kehoe said half of the state's counties do not have an abortion provider and she wants to make it easier for women to access the procedure.

Only doctors and surgeons are allowed to carry out the procedure, also known as a vacuum abortion, currently in California, while four other states allow non-physicians to do so.

"We believe it will give many California women access to earlier, safer procedures in the first trimester of their pregnancy," Kehoe said at a news conference in Sacramento on Tuesday.

The Times reported it appears the proposal has significant levels of support in the Democrat-dominated Legislature.

However it was slammed by California Right-to-Life lobbyist Camille Giglio, who said changes to the current law would mean "casting aside the safety of the woman."

[Warph]

Besides the precedent in privacy violation, is this the beginning of affirmative action for homosexuals? :

California judges must say if they're gay.  In order to make sure gays and lesbians are adequately represented on the judicial bench, the state of California is requiring all judges and justices to reveal their sexual orientation.http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/california-asks-judges-gay-or-straight_631857.html

Hmmmm..... and isn't this stacking the deck for the gay-related court cases on the horizon?  Interesting timing, huh. The US Supreme Court just accepted cert. in an affirmative action case....  see Fisher v. Texas.  (( http://blog.quimbee.com/2012/02/university-of-texas-and-the-supreme-court-thrust-affirmative-action-back-into-the-spotlight/ ))
Maybe all the judges should write-in either "bisexual" or "varies" in protest.  In any case, Get Ready To RUMBLE!

....Warph

[Warph]

Many points come up in the abortion debate.  Here's a look at abortion from both sides - 10 arguments for abortion and 10 arguments against abortion - for a total of 20 statements that represent a range of topics as seen from both sides.

Where do you stand?


Pro-Life - 10 Arguments Against Abortion

1.Since life begins at conception, abortion is akin to murder as it is the act of taking human life. Abortion is in direct defiance of the commonly accepted idea of the sanctity of human life

2.No civilized society permits one human to intentionally harm or take the life of another human without punishment, and abortion is no different.

3.Adoption is a viable alternative to abortion and accomplishes the same result. And with 1.5 million American families wanting to adopt a child, there is no such thing as an unwanted child.

4.An abortion can result in medical complications later in life; the risk of ectopic pregnancies doubles, and the chance of a miscarriage and pelvic inflammatory disease also increases.

5.In the instance of rape and incest, proper medical care can ensure that a woman will not get pregnant. Abortion punishes the unborn child who committed no crime; instead, it is the perpetrator who should be punished.

6.Abortion should not be used as another form of contraception.

7.For women who demand complete control of their body, control should include preventing the risk of unwanted pregnancy through the responsible use of contraception or, if that is not possible, through abstinence.

8.Many Americans who pay taxes are opposed to abortion, therefore it's morally wrong to use tax dollars to fund abortion.

9.Those who choose abortions are often minors or young women with insufficient life experience to understand fully what they are doing. Many have lifelong regrets afterwards.

10.Abortion frequently causes intense psychological pain and stress.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Pro-Choice - 10 Arguments For Abortion


1.Nearly all abortions take place in the first trimester, when a fetus cannot exist independent of the mother. As it is attached by the placenta and umbilical cord, its health is dependent on her health, and cannot be regarded as a separate entity as it cannot exist outside her womb.

2.The concept of personhood is different from the concept of human life. Human life occurs at conception, but fertilized eggs used for in vitro fertilization are also human lives and those not implanted are routinely thrown away. Is this murder, and if not, then how is abortion murder?

3.Adoption is not an alternative to abortion, because it remains the woman's choice whether or not to give her child up for adoption. Statistics show that very few women who give birth choose to give up their babies - less than 3% of white unmarried women and less than 2% of black unmarried women.

4.Abortion is a safe medical procedure. The vast majority of women - 88% - who have an abortion do so in their first trimester. Medical abortions have less than 0.5% risk of serious complications and do not affect a woman's health or future ability to become pregnant or give birth.

5.In the case of rape or incest, forcing a woman made pregnant by this violent act would cause further psychological harm to the victim. Often a woman is too afraid to speak up or is unaware she is pregnant, thus the morning after pill is ineffective in these situations.

6.Abortion is not used as a form of contraception. Pregnancy can occur even with responsible contraceptive use. Only 8% of women who have abortions do not use any form of birth control, and that is due more to individual carelessness than to the availability of abortion.

7.The ability of a woman to have control of her body is critical to civil rights. Take away her reproductive choice and you step onto a slippery slope. If the government can force a woman to continue a pregnancy, what about forcing a woman to use contraception or undergo sterilization?

8.Taxpayer dollars are used to enable poor women to access the same medical services as rich women, and abortion is one of these services. Funding abortion is no different from funding a war in the Mideast. For those who are opposed, the place to express outrage is in the voting booth.

9.Teenagers who become mothers have grim prospects for the future. They are much more likely to leave of school; receive inadequate prenatal care; rely on public assistance to raise a child; develop health problems; or end up divorced.

10.Like any other difficult situation, abortion creates stress. Yet the American Psychological Association found that stress was greatest prior to an abortion, and that there was no evidence of post-abortion syndrome.