Elk Count Commission violates KOMA law

[Patriot]

At least 8 likely violations of Kansas law stemming from just one county commission meeting.... priceless!

The Elk County Board of Commissioners seems to have a limited knowledge of the Kansas Open Meetings Act (KOMA)... or do they know and just don't think the law applies to them.  

Your county commission, on the afternoon of January 9, 2012, appears to have (once again) violated the KOMA regarding Executive Sessions as follows:

1.  Recessed into an executive session without a proper motion, second & affirmative vote in public session as required by KSA 75-4319(a)
2.  Did not re-convene in public meeting after the executive session as provided for in KSA 75-4319(a)(3)
3.  Continued into a second executive session without a proper motion, second & affirmative vote in public session as required by KSA 75-4319(a)
4.  Did not re-convene in public meeting after the executive session as provided for in KSA 75-4319(a)(3)
5.  Continued into a third executive session entered into without a proper motion, second & affirmative vote in public session as required by KSA 75-4319(a)

I expect there will be three more violations when the minutes of the meeting fail to properly record the non-existent executive session motions & statements as required by KSA 75-4319(a)(3) as they have for many, many previous sessions.

It has been said that ignorance of the law is no excuse.  So, Chairman Hendricks, Commissioners Liebau & Ritz... what's your excuse?  "We've always done it that way" is not the answer.

For more info:  http://kansasstatutes.lesterama.org/Chapter_75/Article_43/75-4319.html

[Janet Harrington]

Since you have this knowledge, Patriot, you should call the Kansas Attorney General's Office and file a complaint.

[Patriot]

Since you have this knowledge, Patriot, you should call the Kansas Attorney General's Office and file a complaint.

Such complaints are, according to AG policy, routinely referred to the local county attorney.  Other remedies include lawsuit by citizens seeking an injunction or mandamus.  Given current issues between the commission and the county attorney, I suspect avenue 1 would be fruitless and I'm not inclined to subject the county to the cost of a lawsuit.  Public attention would be a better solution, IMO.

[Ross]

Isn't awareness better than a lawsuit that could cost taxpayers more taxes. Good job.

[Lookatmeknow!!]

I really don't know the laws and such. But as to how a meeting is ran, do you actually know how to run a meeting a real meeting? I am not stating this to start anything, just to praise our youth in running meetings. I am a volunteer 4-H leader and have helped some of the younger groups of kids in our club with learning proper parlimentary procedure. Man, if you don't use it regularly it is hard to remember which motions require a second and such. But my point is this, not all meetings are ran so proper all the time. Maybe this was a meeting where they forgot to reconvine. I know our kids will forget things, and even us adults helping lead the meetings do, too. Now, has this happened before, or several times? Just wondering!

[Patriot]

I really don't know the laws and such. But as to how a meeting is ran, do you actually know how to run a meeting a real meeting?

Yes, I do.  As for unreal meetings... no, I'm not familiar with the format for unreal meetings.

I am not stating this to start anything, just to praise our youth in running meetings. I am a volunteer 4-H leader and have helped some of the younger groups of kids in our club with learning proper parlimentary procedure. Man, if you don't use it regularly it is hard to remember which motions require a second and such. But my point is this, not all meetings are ran so proper all the time. Maybe this was a meeting where they forgot to reconvine. I know our kids will forget things, and even us adults helping lead the meetings do, too. Now, has this happened before, or several times? Just wondering!

We aren't discussing a group of kids learning parliamentary procedure. We aren't even discussing parliamentary procedure. We're talking about a group of elected government officials running a meeting contrary to state laws governing public access to government information and action.  Big difference.  It's not about 'Gee, I forgot', it's about 'There are laws involved, follow em.'

Now, has this happened before, or several times? Just wondering!

I've attended every county commission meeting (except one) since April 2011, and there have been numerous executive sessions conducted by the county commission.  I've seen only ONE that was entered into lawfully and one attempt by Mr Liebau to go into executive session that was stopped by Mr Ritz because the subject to be discussed would have been in clear violation of the KOMA.  I'm also aware of at least three where the subjects discussed were required to be in public session and were therefore additional violations of the Kansas Open Meetings Act.  I believe one of those improper discussions resulted in the board making a binding decision, which would be yet another violation of the Act.  Finally, the county clerk, to my best recollection did not once properly record the executive session recesses in the minutes as required by Kansas law.

Since this is about statutory requirements governing elected bodies and not parliamentary procedure, the 4H comparison is really irrelevant.

Now, my question to you would be:  With all that background, is this about simple forgetfulness, or willful neglect of the law?

Of course, there still remains the recent wage agreement waiving overtime for certain employees entered into by the commission with those employees that violates the Federal Fair Labor Standards Act.

At what point do simple 'mistakes' become the willful acts of scofflaws?

[Diane Amberg]

Does the commission have an official parliamentarian who watches over the proceedings as many organizations do?
It happens to be that Al is the parliamentarian for our fire company. It is his responsibility to know the details and advise if something is about to be missed or answer questions. It sounds like "usual and customary" won't work for them even though it is commonly used in less formal situations.

[Patriot]

Does the commission have an official parliamentarian who watches over the proceedings as many organizations do?

Careful, your east coast elitist perceptions of the world of are showing.  What is it about past discussions regarding our 2882 population, highest mill levies and poorest county in Kansas status that you missed?  What was it about this matter reaching beyond simple parliamentary procedure that escaped your one good eye?

[Diane Amberg]

And being flip with me helps how? One would think your commission would have a lawyer to keep track of such things so there wouldn't be any legal issues as to how the meetings are run....as we "big city" folks do here n the real world.

[Ross]

And being flip with me helps how? One would think your commission would have a lawyer to keep track of such things so there wouldn't be any legal issues as to how the meetings are run....as we "big city" folks do here n the real world.

I want to take this opportunity to wish you a Happy belated birthday Diane, sorry I missed it.

We just don't have the money base that you big city folks in the real world have. We also don't live the same life style as big city folks. And I believe it is a lot cheaper for a citizen of the county to point out a problem to our elected officials so they can then correct the problem. And it makes a lot more sense financially to do that then to take legal action as someone suggested. After all we are all neighbors in the same boat --- er --- county. Even though some think they are on a yacht.

You know it may just be me but it seems during these poor economic times that people just want to spend, spend and ask government's (county government's as well) for handouts while others want to sue.

It's like the money from the wind farm that we may the county taxpayers may recieve. There are those out their hoping to get their hands on that money. That money could be put to good use for all the citizens of Elk County instead of individuals that have formed groups. For instance pay down the county debt and reduce property taxes for everyone.