The future of Schools

[srkruzich]

We, as a society, owe it to every child to make sure they have every advantage possible...Those kids didn't ask to be born.

I didn't ask for them to be born.  Just because their parents couldn't keep it in their pants, we get saddled with raising their kids, Nope not my problem.   Again, I took care of my responsibility.  I'll for damn sure not take on someone elses responsibility.  Thats the problem with this country today.  Abdication of responsibility is why this country is bankrupt!  

We owe it to them just as much as we owe it to those who can't work to pay our taxes so that they can go on disability and still be able to afford to function as a hopefully independent adult.

THose that go on disability paid for their disability!   They paid into it.  It is a contractual obligation that was made by the government to the people that were forced to pay into it. So therefore it is a contract not a obligation.   Again i did not create these kids.  Nor did i derive any pleasure or benefit of it and should not be required to pay for their fun.

As far as how you handle your children...More power to you.  Wish all parents were carbon copies of you BUT THEY ARE NOT.  GET OVER YOURSELF AND YOUR EXALTED POSITION IN HOW YOU, YOURSELF, HANDLE YOUR KIDS.  Once again, you are showing your ignorance of what really is involved in the field of education.  I applaud your position...Now, try looking at from reality instead of the position of "it's not my problem".
[ /quote]

I'm not going to get over myself.  I did it and they don't.  Its not my fricking problem if they are too stupid to face their own responsibilities.   Take care of their own mess.  Why should i look at it from any other position.  Whats in it for me?  Do i benefit? do i get something in return?  Nope can't say that i do!  Other than the "touchy fuzzy feeling" you get when you do something good.  I get all the touchy feely i need from my pups and my goats and critters.   HAven't you heard, i kiss goats!

[srkruzich]

OMG, srkruzich, I can't hardly believe your idiotic ideas and your "everyone has one or can afford one" "I'm not responsible for every kids education" and on and on bull crap.  Remember the "It takes a village to raise a child?"

NO it doesn't!  If the damn village had interfered with the raising of my child, i would have responded with force against it. That's interfering with parents rights to raise their child according to their own ideology.  The village has no business in raising anything. 
That's a Marxist communist bullshit ideal.  Keep your village out of my kids business.

Your responsibility ended when your kids turned 18?  Did you home school them?  or did you just give them a COMPUTER and tell them to go teach themselves?

Both.  Taught my nephew as well. By age 12 all of them could build a computer blindfolded configure it and install any program and run it.  by age 12, 2 of the 3 boys were invited to duke university to go to college.   Product of home teaching, not government teaching.  By  age 12, my oldest was invited to be a page at the senate in Alabama due to the fact that at age 12 he corrected the senator on a tour of the capital on the constitution.  Specifically 1st 2nd, 4th and 5th amendments.  Senator was tellig the kids that the 1st only covered the freedom of speech, the second only pertained to hunting, the 4th only pertained to the boarding of troops  in your home and the 5th only pertained to self incrimination.  My oldest stopped him right there in front of the school, as well as the senators peers and told him that 1st amendment not only dealt with freedom of speech but with freedom OF regligion not from religion and that theres no such thing as separation of church and state that, that was from the jefferson papers. THen he went on to correct the good senator on the 4th amendment being that it requires the government to have a warrant to search anything and that the purpose was to protect our property from unreasonable searches, then he went to the 5th. explained it also included emminent domain, and then reserved the 2nd amendment for last and explained that the only thing the 2nd amendment does is guarantee the right to keep (own, keep, possess) and bear (to carry, keep on ones person, to brandish, openly carry) arms, and that its sole and ONLY PURPOSE was to give the citizens the ability to throw the government out by force!   

When he did that, the peers were chuckling and we got the letter inviting him to come serve as a page. Now its rare as hens teeth to get that from government educators!

My oldest is almost 53, a mother and a grandmother,  and she is still my responsibility when she has problems OF ANY KIND. 

Well sorry to hear that.  My children have grown up and are taking care of themselves and their own responsibilities!  They don't need daddy to bail them out anymore.  Now i can stop being a parent and actually be friends with my kids.   

Our educational system may not be perfect, but take away the computers till they are in high school and teach them the 3 R's, penmanship, science, world and state history, health and some physical activity.

WEll hate to tell ya you take that away today, they won't be able to get a job paying more than min wage.   your going to need more than RWA to make a living these days.

All children need to be with other children to learn to socially mix with other people and proper actions in public. 

No they don't.  Proper actions aren't taught by other children, proper actions are taught by parents starting off with making them mind in public.  One of my biggest pet peeves in public is those parents that won't make their brat mind in a restaurant.  IF i go there to eat and someones brat is running around and raising hell, i get up and tell the parent to get up and be a parent and make the kid shut up.  Done it many times. Pisses the parent off so much they leave.Mission accomplished!
But people today don't wanna upset people so they put up will unmannerly children and parents that haven't got the ca hones to discipline their children.

Yes, social graces should be taught by parents, but many don't and there still no interaction with other children if they are not with other children.

Again that's not my problem. That's their problem.  IF they become my problem i will deal with it very quickly as i told ya about in the previous paragraph.

Restrict the time they spend in front of the TV or computer screen. 

CHeck yep agree! I'll do ya one better.  Get rid of the tv!  I did!

Give them chores to do AFTER the homework is done. 

Check yep you bet!  Delegation of the housework, yardwork and everyday operation of the house is a necessity.  It also teaches responsibility.  Start out with the younger ones in feeding a pet, or taking trash or washing dishes and increase as age dictates.  A parent should not have to do much with kids helping.  A single parent if they do it right should not have to do anything other than working and a little house duty. Kids need to take on responsibility.  Furthermore when I became disabled, I was so damn proud of my boys.  They were in highschool, working their jobs and when my income went to zero, they took their money and paid the bills!  Now that's responsibility in action!

Teach them responsibility and educate them and you have a person ready for the working class.  I can count in 30 seconds and on one hand the number of close friends I have that do not have a computer or a cell phone.

And YOU are how much older than the 18 year olds?   thats not a fair assessment when most likely those 30 are your age or close too it.

[Judy Harder]

This is a very interesting subject you are debating on. Love it.
I am not a teacher.....nor was I much of a student..........think if I were in school now, I would qualify for title one and extra help.
My folks tried grounding from all school events.........dances, games anything and the more they grounded the lazier I got. I think if someone had told mom that I needed special education she would have still been erupting.........I know it didn't help my self confidence.

Oh, I found out I could learn. I did have a good work record when my husband and I needed the extra income and he worked shift work so I could work nights and he worked days and one or the other of us stayed home with the 3 under 3.

Not excusing my self over any of this. It is all fact and we can't go back.
I do know since I have this computer.........altho I still don't know how/why and when I need to fix it I call Lazy Bear and pay to get it fixed.........I have learned a lot. I even spend time "LOOKING UP things that I spent the highschool years avoiding.
May have needed to get through the "College of Hard Knocks" before I cared enough to educate my brain.


So, I don't feel all students would benefit from a completely digital school. Feeling like a dummy isn't fun. but watching others and even picking up things I didn't know I knew until adult life hit......

I do not have answers. but I can see Magnet schools happening more....
If it is up to me, I still believe in school and leaving the home at least sometime during the week to watch and learn from attending school. Then if lessons can be done at home with a computer so be it.

Next

[srkruzich]

I agree with all of you at one point or another.
Steve, younger kids are still learning HOW to learn. They need constant oversight to help them develop longer attention spans and concentration.( Time on Task) They are, at least here, exposed to computer lab training in K and on up. High school can be very different and will surely use more and more technology, once folks ever decide what the curriculum should be.

ACTUALLY i witnessed two children in the past few years, learn to read and write with minimal adult interaction. They got on computer in the house and learned how to get to their online games.  They type in the url address and have done so for 2 years now.  They later were formally taught reading.   When there's an incentive to learning there's no obstacle.

As far back as 1962, when I was a lowly frosh, UD had huge classes in lecture halls run by teaching assistants, usually scheduled for three days a week. The materials were on film and we rarely ever saw the professor except for an occasional lecture.  The syllabus and homework assignments were handed out by the assistants. This was very common in the 101 level classes that were required for almost everyone. It's not a new idea.
I took Delaware History ,a required course, on Saturday morning  (second semester) on the one dorm TV. Then we went to an assigned place for the final exam, a 200 question multiple choice test. That era was also the beginning of "programmed texts." They had the course information, but then also had built in quizzes. Depending on how one scored, the book would then send you to another section for remedial work, or on to new information. Self teaching.  I had a few of those that we used with the kids during my first years of teaching also, not very popular or successful.

Cant remember what the program was years ago but they had these cards in a box you worked, and once done you went on to the next card. or redirected to a supplemental card to further train you.  IF i remember right it worked out pretty good.

I also totally also agree with Cat, Angie and Flo. There is much more to effective education than just laying out information....but, I can see in the upper grades and college too, technology ,when not abused, can be exciting and wonderful.
But Steve, weren't you the one who also said to ditch all the gadgets and make the kids work with nothing more than pencil and paper? I think that still has a place too.

I said to ditch the calculators and gadgets that stopped them from having to know how to do math OR reading OR writing.  The computer idea isn't gadgetry. Visual has always been a good medium to teach.  Calculators just give answers. it doesn't teach how to get those answers without a calculator.  

Boy i would love to see a student today use a slide rule.  ROTFLMAO  they would look like a calf looking at a new gate!  

Using all the senses is important .We've talked about that before. Everybody has comfort learning areas, whether one is a visual learner, an auditory learner, a tactile learner or a combination of all. People who are not teachers don't necessarily know that. But teachers do, and try to help all kids achieve as much as they can by using a combination of things that hit all learning areas. Tactile learners don't do as well on computers as auditory and visual learners do, but they can get around it. There will always have to be memorization for applied skills to work, such as memorizing x tables, and shop, and science where doing things is more important than theory.

Science isn't about memorization. It is about applying the abilities to think critically and make informed choices between the results that is obtained.  IF you know basic math, you can do science formulas. You don't have to memorize the formulas.  In chemistry you generally need to memorize the periodic table only because you need to know the molecular weight of the said element and its basic component structure, how many carbons to however many hydrogens are present.  The rest is just deduction and process of elimination.  Kids learn POE when their 2 years old.  stick a hot tater in  a row with other cold items and by process of elimination they will find the hot tater!  

In other areas in the future  some educational topics may depend more on learning how to look up facts, rather than memorizing such things as time lines. My goodness, some folks may actually learn the apostrophe rules.

Yep they might...LOL,  I've never been able to memorize very well. Took me 2 years to learn the times tables.
and i used to be able to diagram and dissect sentences but time has taken its toll on me.

The social skills away from home... judgement, all of it, come in time and have to be reenforced, if not taught in school.

SOcial skills are taught in the home.  To this day, if a adult speaks to anyone of my boys, they respond with a yes sir no sir yes maam no maam.  they also respect elders. They also help anyone that needs help whether it be a older or disabled crossing street or the young child that needs something too high out of their reach.  
Social skills is not a reflection of their exposure to other kids, it is a direct reflection on their parents in how they brought their children up.  

Teachers are responsible for the education and safety of all the kids, not just the kids of one family. 

Thats Education and their safety while in their care right! But social skills, and all the other stuff is not the job of a teacher now is it.  

Steve, often the parents of the severely retarded demand that schools take their kids, no matter how wasteful it may seem or how expensive it is because they pay taxes too. Institutionalizing those kids isn't cheap either, so what is the alternative?

In the case of Russel, the state forced the parents to send him.  Sorry but Russel has about as much self awareness as a potted plant!  Its not his fault it is just the way it is.  He cannot speak, he makes sound but thats it.  So what is the purpose of sending him to school and having to pay special people to come in and take care of him all day, and teach him?  He has 3 teachers for him alone!  at the sum of about 40k a year each or more.  Not saying he isn't worth spending on, just that it will NOT benefit him.  You feel for the guy but quite frankly i think he's better off than the rest of us!  He's frozen in time as a very young infant.  Can't really feel sorry for him on that count!  I might even call it a blessing for him!

It's a heart wrenching thing and very expensive no matter how it's handled. No easy answers on this one.
As far as your stance on "avoidance learning," I strongly object and always will. Most parents would NOT agree with you.These are children, not pigs, dogs and horses. A swat for misbehavior is one thing, associating education to violence just isn't right.

ROTFL  Well it says in the bible.  Train up a child in the way he should go and when he is old he will not depart from it. It also says spare the rod and spoil the child.  We have the proof of that walking around in every public school in America!  

My grandpa whipped my butt only 1 time in my entire life!  my sister and i were being brats in the furniture store when he went to go buy something.  He walked out to the truck, walked back in to the store and whopped both of us with the razor strap!  I'll tell you one thing, never again did we put him in that situation to have to bring out the strap!  

SO yeah it does work! and it does work well!  

[srkruzich]

Not excusing my self over any of this. It is all fact and we can't go back.
I do know since I have this computer.........altho I still don't know how/why and when I need to fix it I call Lazy Bear and pay to get it fixed.........I have learned a lot. I even spend time "LOOKING UP things that I spent the highschool years avoiding.
May have needed to get through the "College of Hard Knocks" before I cared enough to educate my brain.

You know My mother is 70 years old.  Her computer died last month, and she called me.  I told her where to look and what to do and she determined it was her power supply.  I sent her the replacement part and she put it in herself.  Just had her on the phone and answered a couple questions about the connectors and she did it.  She replaces her own parts, she configures her own computer and when she gets into trouble i talk her through it.  IF its too far for her ability i login to her computer and fix it.
At 70 she's going back to work part time, mostly because she has to but she has the computer skills necessary to go to work for the church she's applied to and can do everything needed. 

I also teach others to work on their own system. 25 a hour and you can learn.  Beats paying lucky bear or dell or any other computer vendor money to fix it!  Save tons of money!
Heck i'll even teach ya how to build a computer. 2 hours is usually what it takes.    even get ya the parts for cost and you build it yourself.
ITS that easy to do.

So, I don't feel all students would benefit from a completely digital school. Feeling like a dummy isn't fun. but watching others and even picking up things I didn't know I knew until adult life hit......

I never said all would but the majority will.  Just look at the facts.  IF a child can play todays video games they can learn via digital media.  Those video games have on average over 40 different key sequences to do the things needed to win the game.  Now to memorize all those sequences and to know when and how to use them takes a LOT of skill. ANd as yyou know skills are developed through learning and learning these games is strictly visual. 

Also when kids are exposed to computers, and the incentive is there, they can quickly learn how to install applications and configure them.  I recently taught someone how to download music to the desktop and transfer to their generic ipod. took all of 30 min. They are downloading nuts now! 

I do not have answers. but I can see Magnet schools happening more....
If it is up to me, I still believe in school and leaving the home at least sometime during the week to watch and learn from attending school. Then if lessons can be done at home with a computer so be it.

Next

Homeschooling is much more than sitting at home.  You use everything in a day to teach.  Just by going outside and taking care of the critters you learn eveyrthing from math to science!  FOR EXAMPLE!  go out and find your horse with a bullet wound that is oozing puss.  What do you you utilize as far as education to treat the animal?   Well math for one.  You gotta know what a ml is and how many ml it takes per pound of body weight to administer antibiotic to that animal.  Not only that, you need to know the biology of the animal and what kind of antibiotic to use.  You need to know what kind of infetcion it is and one way is to take a sample and stick under a microscope and see it.   Or lets put it this way.  Feed.  How much feed do you need to feed a lactating cow to give you the most pounds of milk per pound of grain! 

See theres tons of learning involved at home!

Make them figure out the electric bill. How many kwh are used and how much they are paying per kwh.

[Lookatmeknow!!]

I see where you think that you have done raised your children. But God forbid what if you had to raise your grandchildren would you do it? I wonder, by the way you sound. Your right it's not yours or anyone elses responsibility to raise, educate, or feed others children. But the bible does say something about treating others with respect and also about how we should treat children. I am very concerned what my children learn from other children. But as their parent I have to teach them right from wrong. If I did homeschool them, then they would have no idea about this cruel world and then what??? Steve, computers are great love my, and I love my online classes. But really if I wasn't so self motivated, which I am not at times, it wouldn't work for me. I would have hated online math. Plus everyone doesn't have computers. I only have one at the daycare and my kids are not hardly allowed to use it. I have to have a working computer for my classes, so I can't afford them to be on it. We do not have one at home that works. I refuse to pay the outragous internet fee, and we don't have a working phone line there. Just cell phones. I have gotten a cell phone for the house, but the girls are not to use it unless they are home without one of us. I am not about to let my girls have cell phones until they can pay their own bill. I also refuse to buy them an Ipod. If they can't help keep the house clean, they can't take care of an IPod. They have cheap MP3 players and that is it. By cheap, 20.00 ones or so.

I am for some use of online classes, just not the majority and especially not in the lower elementaries. There are to many different rules, and things in math and reading that they need to know!! Just not for it!!

[srkruzich]

I see where you think that you have done raised your children. But God forbid what if you had to raise your grandchildren would you do it? I wonder, by the way you sound. Your right it's not yours or anyone elses responsibility to raise, educate, or feed others children. But the bible does say something about treating others with respect and also about how we should treat children. I am very concerned what my children learn from other children. But as their parent I have to teach them right from wrong. If I did homeschool them, then they would have no idea about this cruel world and then what??? Steve, computers are great love my, and I love my online classes. But really if I wasn't so self motivated, which I am not at times, it wouldn't work for me. I would have hated online math. Plus everyone doesn't have computers. I only have one at the daycare and my kids are not hardly allowed to use it. I have to have a working computer for my classes, so I can't afford them to be on it. We do not have one at home that works. I refuse to pay the outragous internet fee, and we don't have a working phone line there. Just cell phones. I have gotten a cell phone for the house, but the girls are not to use it unless they are home without one of us. I am not about to let my girls have cell phones until they can pay their own bill. I also refuse to buy them an Ipod. If they can't help keep the house clean, they can't take care of an IPod. They have cheap MP3 players and that is it. By cheap, 20.00 ones or so.

I am for some use of online classes, just not the majority and especially not in the lower elementaries. There are to many different rules, and things in math and reading that they need to know!! Just not for it!!

That all sounds good to me.  My grandchild is taken care of by responsible parents!  So i have no need to raise him.    They make damn sure he comes first.

[thatsMRSc2u]

Hey Ma.....I'm gonna be 52.....Im gettin old fast enough! Dont push me for cryin out loud! 

Steve, Dont rag on my Mom and I wont rag on you, the responsibility she is talkin about has NOTHING to do with finances thank you very much I got my first "outside" job when I was 14 and I've took care of my own (and some others) since I got divorced at 23. If I hit a snag my Mom would be there in a heartbeat because thats what family does and vice versa me for her.

You really need to quit talkin so much smack.... anybody can be a bigshot on the internet....

That's a Marxist communist bullshit ideal.  Keep your village out of my kids business.

no actually my over educated friend it's a "Christian" ideal of taking care of those who cant take care of themselves and watch your language when you talk to my mother....I sure wouldnt cuss at yours.

anybody can learn anything and some of the most LEARNED people I have ever known I met on a construction site workin their asses off because THAT"S what they loved. There is a difference between LEARNED and EDUCATED.

Dont waste your fingers typing out a big huge point by point rebuttal because quite frankly it wont matter and if I DO read it it will be for amusement.

[srkruzich]

Steve, Dont rag on my Mom and I wont rag on you, the responsibility she is talkin about has NOTHING to do with finances thank you very much I got my first "outside" job when I was 14 and I've took care of my own (and some others) since I got divorced at 23. If I hit a snag my Mom would be there in a heartbeat because thats what family does and vice versa me for her.

Thats not a responsibility of your mother.  I don't think she dictates what you do with your life.  Time for being a parent ended at 18 when you wentout on your own. 

You really need to quit talkin so much smack.... anybody can be a bigshot on the internet....

What you see is what you get you know. I'm the same in person.

no actually my over educated friend it's a "Christian" ideal of taking care of those who cant take care of themselves

Nope not even close. the village concept came from marx.  Not Christ.  Christ taught family values and family takes care

watch your language when you talk to my mother....I sure wouldnt cuss at yours.

I think your mama is grown up enough to handle it. She reads your posts and I've seen you use the word bullshit.  Shrug.

anybody can learn anything and some of the most LEARNED people I have ever known I met on a construction site workin their asses off because THAT"S what they loved. There is a difference between LEARNED and EDUCATED.

Ok whatever thats supposed to mean.  I don't know why you choose to bring this up.

Dont waste your fingers typing out a big huge point by point rebuttal because quite frankly it wont matter and if I DO read it it will be for amusement.
[/quote]

[Wilma]

One question, Steve.  Suppose your grandchild's parents were killed in an accident and the grandchild had no one else.  Would you still feel that you had done your job and now it was someone else's responsibility?