Government Schools, Bastion of Honesty and ethics!??

[srkruzich]

Oh and on the part of coercion, not an excuse. Pull the license. They made a choice to violate the law, ethics and honor.    THey had the choice to take a stand and keep their dignity and honor and sue them for firing them or they had the choice they took to just do as they were told and support the corruption. 

I've told employers before  i would not do as they asked and that i WOULD go to the CEO of the company if they fired me for it, as well file a lawsuit against them. 

Again there is no excuses.

[Lookatmeknow!!]

Please tell me if I am wrong, but I think most of the Kansas State Assessments are computerized? That would solve teachers trying to cheat the students. That is just wrong on so many levels. As I have stated before, going back to get my masters in Special Education, and I am not for standarized test at all. I just had to take one two weeks ago and have another to take this weekend, the PLT (Principles of Teaching and Learning). Not a good test taker on those test, especially since they cost so much to take, and if you don't pass you pay again. It just plain stinks. I, as a teacher, just had an interview the other day and told the group, I am not a tenure person, don't believe in it and I went into teaching to teach kids, because I love it. It's not the most glorious job, but I loved teaching. I also told them that my job is to make sure that the students' learn however I can get them interested in learning.

We may all hate the state and government being involved, but I don't see that changing anytime soon. It stinks, too. But, to me, the one test says nothing about a students true ability. There are so many other types of informal assessments that give you a better base line as to where your students stand then some standardized test that compares one group of students to others. And when you compare the groups, they might be totally different types of districts. Oh, could go on and on on this!!

[srkruzich]

I agree angie, there is no reason for standardized anything.  MOST OF those standardized tests, i think they used to call them a california something or another when i was a kid, most kids just mark answers. They could care less if they are right or wrong.  After the 1st hour of that crap, i would just mark whatever just to get it over with.

[Lookatmeknow!!]

I think that teachers have only one thing in mind if they cheat on the test like the ones did in Georgia, and that is saving their job. I would be more worried about the students actually learning something. I do think the only thing that they are really good for are a base line and that is it. As a teacher you have to look at so much else other than that test to know if your students are learning. That's my opinion.

[Diane Amberg]

Absolutely, Angie. Steve, they were called California tests, you do remember correctly. But I disagree with your statement that most kids just mark answers.  Why do you think that? I remember when I took them they were given in the cafeteria and the school principal stressed how important the tests were before the tests were passed out. She also told us it helped to compare our school to other schools. We were admonished at the beginning of the year that they would be coming up and to pay attention and do well so we would be ready to do well on the standardized tests. It worked for me. But those scores were just a small part of our personal scores and grades. Our everyday classroom work, home work,  quizzes and tests counted for most of our grade. The standardized tests were not graded by the teachers, some test committee did it.
When I taught in Delaware, we gave those tests in our classrooms and we graded them from a chart and scoring table which was included in the sealed test box that was handed to us just before the test started. We even had to set up stanines and percentiles, graph it on a bell curve etc. to turn in. Ah yes, the days of the standard deviation! That was all before computers of course, and we had to check all those tests on our own time, at home. It took many hours.

[Ross]

Here they teach the test during the two weeks before the kids take the test.
To many times I have had the teachers tell me. "Oh, we are not doing spelling this week because we are studying for the state test next week.

Go, figure.

[Ross]

Here is information any nasty person can back stab me with and it is down right truthful.

I quit in the third grade and no one cared. I tried cheating and that didn't work for me so I quit that.
I failed all the way through to getting my diploma. They just gave me passing grades to push me through.
I never should have got that diploma, but I deserved it anyway for having to tolerate the system.
So all of you out there are much smarter than I am.

I joined the military wtith maybe a 5th grade reading level.
But this is where my education started, thank you.
After boot camp I was fortunate enough to go to Electricians school.
Where I had to go to night school.

From that point, while on electrical switchboard
Watches I learned to read real well. I read every Louis Lamour book that was available.
Then I graduated to various novels.
From there I took multiple military correspondence
Courses on electrical repair, installaion etc and leadership.
I then attended advanced electricians school where one of the
Advanced courses was boolean algebra.
I also became profecient at reading wiring diagrams and schemantics.

But, I have never quit learning to this day. Almost everyday I learn something new.

My son has some learning problems and I held him back a year for numerous reasons.
It was not a form of punishment. I spoke with or illustrious school superintendent before I held my son back.
He said, "That's not advisable because they say it leads to kids dropping out of school". It's my personal opinion that he uses the word "they" way too much. I had known too many kids that were held back and graduated high school.

Well, when I enrolled my son back in the same grade he had just completed but the school went ahead and moved him up a grade anyway. They do not have that right, legally or otherwise. I am the parent and know my son far better than they do.

When I spoke with the special education teacher during an IEP about working with him on his writing and reading I was asked why waste time on his writing. I was told they had more important things to do. I asked what and got no answer at all.
I was quoted an editorial in the New York Times that came out that morning and I had also read the article. The article was a college professor stating the kids didn't need to know how to write they would all have keyboards (computers). I responded to the quote that the professor actually did say that and that he was being Facetious. He was upset that his 18  year old daughters signature on her college application looked like something a grade schooler would do. He also stated that children with better hand writing perform better in school.

Well I moved my son to Elk Valley and held him back a year. Elk Valley has been much more cooperative and have a much better attitude. I also no of another child that West Elk could not or would not deal with and they sent him to Elk Valley. And I know that child is doing much better at Elk Valley. It's not the fancy school building or the fancy football field or the fancy track that teaches the children.

When they say they want what's best for the children, that's bull. Because a better track or a better footballfield or a bigger better building are not what is best for the children. A bigger and fancier computer system is not what is best for the children.
Basic's is whtat is best for the children. If they all don't learn the basics the school is a looser in my opinion. and I mean every child not jus the richest peoples children, or the smartest children.

[srkruzich]

Absolutely, Angie. Steve, they were called California tests, you do remember correctly. But I disagree with your statement that most kids just mark answers.  Why do you think that?

Because thats what we did.  Kids are no fools. They know all the tests are for is government crap.  Heck, most of the kids in my class, was done and over with the tests in 15 min.  The reason?  Why bother when it doesn't affect your grade.  Those tests don't tell squat.  IT must have really confused them when here my tests showed i was probably dumb as a rock, and yet i made straight A's and slept half the time i was in school. 

In fact it got so damn boring in school that i quit in 11 grade, went and got my GED and went on to live life.  BTW i scored 189 out 200 on the GED.  So that pretty much said i knew my stuff when i quit in the 11th.  My SAT's were 1128 i think.  Which was high scores.  Could get into about any college i wanted to.   Didn't go back to school til i was 30 something. graduated 4.0 and never stopped after that.

So standardized tests won't get you the information you want.    I don't think kids have changed a whole lot on test taking since i was a kid.  So thats why i say they are doing the same thing today.

[Diane Amberg]

Steve, any good teacher could tell if some kids just went through the motions on those tests. At the ages those kids took those test they were in no position to know whether those tests had value or not. I suppose some parent would excuse their child's poor performance by suggesting that the whole thing was stupid. Immaturity plays a part too.
  Why bother if it doesn't count? Discipline and character building that's why. Learning HOW to take tests and understand the differences between different kinds of questions is part of the learning process.  I wouldn't brag about poor school attitude Steve. You should have been challenged more, but if you excused yourself by sleeping in class, why would the teacher bother? Did your parents work with your teachers to challenge you? I'd have loved to have worked with you. You'd have had extra assignments and individual study projects.
In your case, you quit, no surprise there. I guess you are younger than I thought. When I went to school in the 50's and very early 60's ,you quit, that was that. No second chances. GEDs started out to help vets who enlisted for WWII before they graduated. That made sense. Now some people complain because it's considered coddling the kids. Why should they get to squander their education and goof off with no consequences, and then go to night school to finish. Why did you even bother with a GED, Steve? I know you made sure your own sons got a good education. As I have said many times, one size doesn't necessarily fit all, but most kids do fine and also enjoy the sports, music and the whole school experience, including the Prom and other events that they will always remember and cherish. When one quits that experience is lost too.  Sure e-education may be the thing of the future, but even that won't fit every one,  I still say for every person there is some way to get the education that is a good fit. How does griping help?

[Ross]

It appears to me more emphasis is placed on sports, music and proms than education.
And how many girls and guys have good memories of getting drunk and pregnant on prom night.
It's not all cupcakes and roses.

No, I did not participate in the games played in high school and that includes the prom.

I walked that stage to please my parents. I was holding down three part time jobs and when I took the time to have a good time
it was with people that meant more to me than a social bunch with hang ups and sucked up.
I was above all that falderall.

Ya'all fool yourselves.

"They laughed, because he was different"

"He laughed, because they were all the same"