No To School Vouchers & Gov't Schools....

[Diane Amberg]

Excuse me? I was responding to Steve and he knows I tease sometimes. What is YOUR problem? I've always told you I am a lousy typist and you can pick all you want and be right. I never mind the criticism of my typing because its true!
You sure are touchy with me, but you freely criticize many others about many things. So what!  Lighten up. It's not my fault your teachers couldn't get through to some of you 'way back when. I didn't teach you or I promise you, you wouldn't be weak in any of that.You are obviously an intelligent person and perhaps should have had your butt kicked until you got it. It's never to late to learn.

[srkruzich]

Education does cost something. I pay my school tax bill every September. It's  separate from our county tax so we can see exactly what it is. If people don't pay attention to those costs it's their problem. They can complain to the school board or not pass referendums when they come along, but people have to pay attention. I don't mean they should nit pick every detail of the budget but yes, there should be priorities set. Like grammar and spelling and knowing the difference between they're, there and their! Poke, poke!  (Private school?)  
Parents should should set good examples for their kids by letting them see their parents read, go to the library, watch educationally appropriate things on TV with their kids.,not just the sports, and still leave time for the kids to just be kids. It's a tough balancing act.
Some parents want their kids to have cell phones, music majors would have a hard time without music.but they tend to be the better students anyway. Football? Is not the kids' faults if some parents put to much importance in it. My high school didn't even play football at all. We had soccer.

I got an excuse.  I suffer from CRS.

[Catwoman]

CRS?    I would have said GOMS... (Grouchy Old Man Syndrome...lol)

[srkruzich]

Look, Diane, You of all people ought to know that these kids today are coddled.  They're (see i know how to use it), not made to learn.  I did it with my kids. I told them your there, (See i used it right again) NOT TO SOCIALIZE but to sit your ass down in that desk and apply the God given brains you have and learn what you need to learn so that you can go out and conquer the world with your wit, charm and intelligence.   And i told them i would not accept anything but their best.  I did not allow c's, or low b's.  I required excellence in their work.  Told them from the start they were smart, they had the intelligence to go forth and learn, and there was no excuse for mediocrity.  

Like i said before. IF I were in charge of a school, i would require the same thing from every student. Literally i would set the bar high enough so the smart kids struggled to meet it.  I would not set different bars for different kids. One bar fits all.   You see, if the kids don't know its too high for them, then they don't know they might not achieve meeting that bar.  AND SO what if they don't meet the bar. You would have a real gauge on their learning capabilities as well as what they have learned.  

This crap of teaching to the test is not education. So why are the teachers doing it?  I wouldn't, i would teach.  Period.  They would learn.  With 6 kids you get a range of abilities in learning.  Some not so great others are easy for them.  One of the things i told the ones that had a hard time learning was that see your brother who you think is so smart is having a tough time too.  But your keeping up with him.  

What did i get out of my method?  Uhmmm 1 graduated at 16 technically cause they were taking college courses at 16, three more got invited to attend Duke, and the other two one is going to Mercedes Benz school to train on Mercedes as a mechanic, the other one is in theater.    BTW, the ones with the lower IQ's, and hardest time learning, were the ones invited to duke.

The worst thing the system has ever done to children is to dumb down the education.  Years ago you could take a GED and it was very difficult to get. IF you got a near perfect to perfect score you were well educated. These days, The GED is a freaking joke!  IF you were to give that test to a 1980 8th grader, they would ace the test.  And SAT's??  Their even worse!   I retook my SATs in 2007. I remember my score from 1980 and it was 935.  I got a 1370 on mine the second go around out of 1600 max.  I shouldn't have gotten that high if they weren't dumbed down.  
NOW the max score is 2400.  They dumbed it down even further in the last 3 years.  This is why we can't get quality people in the workforce. They've been handed their Diplomas and all on a silver platter.  No one has to work for a good score anymore.

I was laughing my butt off when i was in college for Horticulture.  Started with a class of 40, by the end of the semester, 5 of us were left.  AND all of us were over 40.  Among the EXCUSES  i heard was, "I quit cause the teacher didn't grade on a curve"  "I quit because the teacher isn't fair" "i quit cause he gave too much homework"  "I quit cause it is too difficult"  Good lord, if i quit every time i ran into difficulty, i would have just gave up and killed myself years ago.  

There IS NO CHALLENGE anymore in the school system.  The kids have it far too easy.  Heck i don't think they even give grades anymore in many of the schools. They might hurt the kids self esteem.  Poppycock.  Their self esteem is the last thing that needs to be worried about.  Let them build their own self esteem by taking a impossible task and mastering it! Now thats self esteem building!

[srkruzich]

But then again i keep forgetting, the government doesn't want leaders coming out of school systems they want everyone the same to be good socialist workforce to fill the low wage jobs out there. 

[srkruzich]

Oh and one more thing, Why does a parents wanting their kid to have cellphones have to do with anything. Cellphones are a detraction. Ban them.  What the hell ever happened to the schools rules and standards.  Used to be that we had dress codes and codes of ethics as well as standard rules and regs to attend.   There was no negotiation on that either.

[srkruzich]

CRS?    I would have said GOMS... (Grouchy Old Man Syndrome...lol)

I've got that too. Goes hand in hand.....

[Diane Amberg]

Sorry Steve, mine is getting worse as I get older too. But my spelling is still pretty good and my "special"  words like the "there, their and they're" are stuck in my brain because I pounded them into the kids for so many years.
Yes, it does bother me when otherwise intelligent, educated people put apostrophes willy nilly into simple plurals that aren't possessives or contractions.They want to be considered experts, and heartily agreed with, but can't punctuate the easy stuff.
  I'm still waiting for someone to catch the deliberate spelling error in my retort to Jar. I guess that just proves my point!  Anybody catch it?
    Steve the cell phone business is pertinent unfortunately. I agree with you for obvious reasons, but some parents have gone to  the school demanding that their child be allowed their cell phone in case of a family emergency and the administration caved in. It's a royal pain! Most of our public schools do have dress codes and many, including the Charter Schools have uniforms. Some have a very nice variety but it's a uniform none the less. Actually, my dear it was wrong again the second time...it's you're. As a teacher, I'm not good at ''make the child learn" power conflicts.That has to come from home.My way was to make the kids know what was expected, present it, often in more than one way and let them know they would be evaluated.They knew that their grade represented their skill in learning whatever was being taught. Many kids today don't seem to understand the correlation between their success in learning and their grade. They think it has something to do with being "liked" by the teacher. Of course subjective grades, like on essays, can be hard for the parents to understand sometimes.
Yes, I know there are poor teachers but there are many more good ones. I was one of them. How do I know? I still have parents come up to me after many years and tell me how good I was for their child. That means more to me than money in the bank.

[jarhead]

Quote from Diane:
Excuse me? I was responding to Steve and he knows I tease sometimes. What is YOUR problem? I've always told you I am a lousy typist and you can pick all you want and be right. I never mind the criticism of my typing because its true! 
You sure are touchy with me, but you freely criticize many others about many things. So what!  Lighten up. It's not my fault your teachers couldn't get through to some of you 'way back when. I didn't teach you or I promise you, you wouldn't be weak in any of that.You are obviously an intelligent person and perhaps should have had your butt kicked until you got it. It's never to late to learn


WOW. You leave me speechless---almost. Why is it you can point out a mistake but it's OK because you say "poke--poke ". I do the same thing and you rip me a new one. You need to lighten up.
I guess if you can type, even if it is lousy, (your description---not mine ) you are one up on me because like I said before---I'm a one finger--one letter at a time, kinda guy but I guess it's never too late to learn, huh ?

[Diane Amberg]

Also, teachers are subjected to the "I pay your salary" business. The parents make demands because they pay the bills and some administrators will cave every time. As far as every child having the same bar, I disagree. Some kids do have learning disabilities that keep them from learning as easily.They will get it but not at the same speed as others. It's not easy to get to to keep the top kids interested and challenged at their instructional level and still give time to the kids who just need more time.
 Again, you are relating and connecting your own experiences to everybody. Steve, it's just not that way.  I'm not a person to teach by intimidation either, it's just not me. I  cannot threaten a child to make him learn something. It's just how I'm wired. I was always more successful in trying to tie things to practical application. I'm glad I'm not in the classroom on a regular basis now...texting drives me nutz!  Today's kids are so much more forward too." "I shouldn't have to learn that." "What good is it? "
It's hard to explain sometimes that "learning how to learn" is a process that takes years. From top to bottom and left to right reading, to writing in a way that communicates, to all the math combinations, to high school and beyond, it all has to start somewhere and some of it will be boring.Too bad, learn it anyway!