Of Elk Konnected, wind farms & gorillas... Friends, Romans, countrymen...

[Diane Amberg]

Gee,  Patriot, my little fable wasn't appreciated?  So therefor I must have something wrong with me? Figures. Funny I don't recall mentioning anyone or anything personal except for a gorilla.  I think it's very funny.    By the way a white elephant is a very different thing.
 Patriot, you have made it clear you can't stand me, so what did I have to lose? You have no objectivity when it comes to anything I say. Lighten up will ya?
 Ross, I wish I was a corporate lawyer so I could explain some "what ifs'' that could be in play here, but since I don't have, and am not owed any details, I can't reassure you about any of this. There is so much concern about taxpayer money. What if the questioned grant came from a foundation for the state of Kansas to distribute?  Not all money that states and the Fed have come from collected taxpayer money. Tax revenue is the the biggest one of course.You had questions about Public Square? Why shouldn't a group with that kind of experience be asked (hired) to help? That's what community action groups do. They may have saved a lot of time preventing wheel spinning, made suggestions on how to get started and probably gave some very important legal advise about LLCs and nonprofits and tax status and such. I don't know for sure of course, but such things do happen here when community groups get together. Here they are usually civic associations, made up of people who can become very powerful and can influence County Council because they can form a big voting block.They are made up off all kind of people but it's not considered a conflict of interest because nobody is paid and people  recuse themselves if a personal issue comes up. They all have their local communities at heart and they also work very hard for the benefit of all. We just have much bigger numbers.   I know Humbolt  KS has been doing something similar as did/is Greensburg....Four years ago today?
Sorry Roma, I didn't mean to give you a headache.

[Patriot]

Gee,  Patriot, my little fable wasn't appreciated?  So therefor I must have something wrong with me? Figures. Funny I don't recall mentioning anyone or anything personal except for a gorilla.  I think it's very funny.    By the way a white elephant is a very different thing.
 Patriot, you have made it clear you can't stand me, so what did I have to lose? You have no objectivity when it comes to anything I say. Lighten up will ya?

Your assumption that I can't stand you is wrong.  If that were the case, I would tell you so with no ambiguity.  If you say something that is out of context, then I don't think objectivity is at issue.  As for your fable,  it was way too far off point.  Given that some of the things being discussed regarding the EK, government, conflict of interest, etc. have recently brought to public view situations that might even have overtones of... let's just stick with your fable really not following the point and in context not being funny at all.

[Ross]

Not that I know of Ross.  My grandfather John owned the lumber yard in Moline until his death in 1960"  He also wrote the 'Annie Knight' column.  My dad's name was George Turner.  That is my relationship to Elk Co.

Like I said I was just curious, it is a small world we live in today. The Turner's I know in Independence are mighty fine people.
My school buddy's mother thanked me recently for keeping him out of trouble when we were in high school. That really set me aback, I never expected it. She just never knew I guess, but we never got into trouble with the law or anything just high school shenanigan.
Those were the days. Thanks for responding.

[Ross]

Gee,  Patriot, my little fable wasn't appreciated?  So therefor I must have something wrong with me? Figures. Funny I don't recall mentioning anyone or anything personal except for a gorilla.  I think it's very funny.    By the way a white elephant is a very different thing.
 Patriot, you have made it clear you can't stand me, so what did I have to lose? You have no objectivity when it comes to anything I say. Lighten up will ya?
 Ross, I wish I was a corporate lawyer so I could explain some "what ifs'' that could be in play here, but since I don't have, and am not owed any details, I can't reassure you about any of this. There is so much concern about taxpayer money. What if the questioned grant came from a foundation for the state of Kansas to distribute?  Not all money that states and the Fed have come from collected taxpayer money. Tax revenue is the the biggest one of course.You had questions about Public Square? Why shouldn't a group with that kind of experience be asked (hired) to help? That's what community action groups do. They may have saved a lot of time preventing wheel spinning, made suggestions on how to get started and probably gave some very important legal advise about LLCs and nonprofits and tax status and such. I don't know for sure of course, but such things do happen here when community groups get together. Here they are usually civic associations, made up of people who can become very powerful and can influence County Council because they can form a big voting block.They are made up off all kind of people but it's not considered a conflict of interest because nobody is paid and people  recuse themselves if a personal issue comes up. They all have their local communities at heart and they also work very hard for the benefit of all. We just have much bigger numbers.   I know Humbolt  KS has been doing something similar as did/is Greensburg....Four years ago today?
Sorry Roma, I didn't mean to give you a headache.

I lived in Humbolt back in the 70's and I liked the little town. But as my moma alwys told me because someone else does it, that doesn't make it right. And so you think they have the communities interest at heart and that's fine. However if they do, why hide?

You said it, "people who can become very powerful and can influence County Council." And especially when one of them is on the council. Now do you see the conflict of interest and the reason for hiding. Really, where is their loyalty to the elected officials position or the company position. that's why it's called a conflict of interest.

Didn't you read their suggestion: Unified Gov't (w/in the county) to save money and become more unified (do away with city gov't, councils­  all centrally located-one managing body) (Big Ideas's). Why would they truely want to strip the communities of their own identities and place control and taxation in Howard. For control.

Here is some information I got about a year ago and not to many people know. I heard it form school staff. When West Elk High School realized they weren't going to have enough players to have a full team they went to Elk Valley and asked to join teams and Elk Valley said bring your boys on down. Elk valley is in Longton not in howard. West Elk is not in Howard it is about a mile outside the city limits. But they refused to take their boys, they said they wanted Elk Valley to bring their boys to them. Well they went home and droped to a lesser status with their team. In other words if it's not Howard it won't happen. Now let's be clear on this, I can't prove a word of it. And I am sure some one from Howard will telll me about it.

I was never into sports because I started working at 11 years old and never had time for it, besides I was a skinny little runt that would have been thrown around like an old dish rag. Why, I was so small I got played with like a basketball. LOL I didn't start growing untill after high school. But I enjoyed every minute of it, there were disadvantages but there were also advantages, just like everything else in life.

Public Square Communities LLC tells them to take control of their communities, by what authority. Now perhaps he could use a better term but another term might not fit in with, enforcement of cleaning up the town or whatever. Where do they get the authority??

By trickery, such as the lolllipops I referenced in other posts.

I just can't make it any clearer.

[Wilma]

West Elk is less than half a mile south of Howard.  More like a quarter of a mile.  Actually it might be only one block.

Elk Valley has been playing the lesser football for years.  West Elk has the better football facilities, so why should they go to a lesser place?  It is things like this that has kept the county divided.  Two county fairs?  If that is what the people want, why not.  Personally, I think that new fair grounds in the vicinity of the rodeo grounds would be more sensible.

Elk County is the way it is because that is the way the citizens want it.  Otherwise, they would be doing something about it?  Oh, yes, there is a group trying to do something, isn't there?  In spite of the flack they keep getting.  More power to them.  But why shouldn't they have tax money to improve the county?  If the county commissioners think that it is warranted, it is their decision.  Not a one of the commissioners is getting any of the tax money that is being spent trying to bring a better way of life to us.  Isn't that why we pay our taxes?

[Lookatmeknow!!]

Did you read the paper from this week? The commissioners notes are in it. I personally think from what I read, they are doing a pretty good job. But I don't attend the meetings, I just don't have time during the day, nor have the money to pay someone to work for me to do it. I know what an LLC is, but going to do some research on this more. I don't think one person owes LLC, and don't think it is private. I know people on different committess and asked them personally if they paid to be in it or if it was a private group, the answer was no!

As for the ball thing and schools, Wilma has it right. But have so much bad negative things about West Elk you would think that the kids were not learning a thing out there. That is soooo wrong!! My girls are all doing pretty good academic wise and I am very proud of what they are learning. My Kindergartener knows how to read!! Knows how to read and just turned 6 end of April. If you ask me, that is GREAT!! Right were she is supposed to be. As for my 7th grader, have you seen the things that they learn??? Math is a rough one, of course I am more at the Elementary level (as that is the level that I teach), but the kids are challenged!! I think ELK COUNTY IS GREAT!! THE SCHOOLS, THE PEOPLE, AND LOVE EVERYTHING ABOUT IT!!!

[Diane Amberg]

This LLC business can be complicated depending on which state the papers are filed in, and I know just enough to get in trouble, but here goes.
Yes, a person does have to sign the application papers, but that does not necessarily make them  an "owner", they might not even be part of the group who wants to organize. That name simply assures that the application is properly filled out and is true. There is no obligation of ownership nor does it mean anybody is working for them. That name does not have to made public or be made available. It may even be the name of the lawyer who filed the papers on behalf of the group.
  In some states LLC's can be legally tied to private companies or non-profits. Depending on how it is set up, a non profit doesn't have to pay taxes but may have to file tax paperwork and has certain protections from frivolous lawsuits.  It can be very complicated and may need a good lawyer to explain the legal details .I haven't researched Kansas LLC in detail so yours may be set up somewhat differently and have different choices. I have my own small business and looked into all this in Delaware when I set it up many years ago. Look up the Kansas details for yourselves. I know some don't approve but I do have information on some other Kansas areas who have done similar things and the local towns and counties have put tax money in to help with start up costs, commonly called seed money. Whether there were complaints about it, I really can't say. I have a lawyer friend I could ask about all this but I don't want to because he'd probably charge me!

[Patriot]

I don't think one person owes LLC, and don't think it is private. I know people on different committess and asked them personally if they paid to be in it or if it was a private group, the answer was no!

How about this.... instead of you guessing and asking volunteers, take a look at these links which explain what an LLC is and how an LLC works.  These articles are real short.  The 'members' (owners) of an LLC are probably not the volunteers who do the work of cleaning ditches, being on action committees, painting, raking, etc.  There can be one or more members (legal owners) who actually own & manage the LLC.  Read these and see if you can answer the questions... 

What is an LLC:  http://biztaxlaw.about.com/od/glossaryl/a/llcdefinition.htm

     Who formed EK, and who receives the limited liability protections?
     Are volunteers protected from any liability for work done for or with EK?
     Does EK have liability insurance?  How much?  Through what insurance company?
     Who pays the damages if a windshield gets broken at an EK sponsored ballgame?
     What happens if one of our youth gets hit by a car while picking up trash along the highway at an EK sponsored cleanup?
     Do the kid's parents sign any liability waivers before their kids participate in EK functions?
     What about adult volunteers?  How are they protected in case of injury?

Who are the members of an LLC:  http://biztaxlaw.about.com/od/glossarym/g/memberofllc.htm

     Who are the legal members of EK?

What is the Operating Agreement for an LLC:  http://biztaxlaw.about.com/od/glossaryo/g/operatingagree.htm

     Where can you go to see the EK Operating Agreement, and what does it say?
     What are the investment interests, percentage interests, member voting rights, etc. for EK
     How is EK managed, and by whom?  Who is legally responsible for any acts of EK?
     What are the rights and duties of each legal member of EK?
     Who can sign contracts for EK?
     Who legally decides where any money that EK receives ends up going, who pays any bills EK has.
     Do EK's legal members/managers receive any pay or other benefits from EK? 
     Since EK is a business making recommendations to government, are they required to register as a lobby group?  Have they?


These, and many more questions remain unanswered.  When you can make public the answers to these questions, you will be on the road to ending all the recent debates.  My guess is that finding the answers will be very difficult.

[Ross]

West Elk is less than half a mile south of Howard.  More like a quarter of a mile.  Actually it might be only one block.

Elk Valley has been playing the lesser football for years.  West Elk has the better football facilities, so why should they go to a lesser place?  It is things like this that has kept the county divided.  Two county fairs?  If that is what the people want, why not.  Personally, I think that new fair grounds in the vicinity of the rodeo grounds would be more sensible.

Elk County is the way it is because that is the way the citizens want it.  Otherwise, they would be doing something about it?  Oh, yes, there is a group trying to do something, isn't there?  In spite of the flack they keep getting.  More power to them.  But why shouldn't they have tax money to improve the county?  If the county commissioners think that it is warranted, it is their decision.  Not a one of the commissioners is getting any of the tax money that is being spent trying to bring a better way of life to us.  Isn't that why we pay our taxes?

You said, "West Elk is less than half a mile south of Howard." That's the point it is not a Howard School it is a county school that Howard wants to claim, by even attempting to move the city limits to put it in town, why?

You said,"West Elk has the better football facilities, so why should they go to a lesser place? It is things like this that has kept the county divided." So no other community in Elk County is as good as Howard is what I hear. Why then did they go and ask if the only attitude is do it our way?

You said, "It is things like this that has kept the county divided. Two county fairs?" Does Longton call their a county fair? I thought it was called the longton Free Fair? Isn't Longton allowed their own identity? Or Does everyone have to identify with Howard?

You said, "Elk County is the way it is because that is the way the citizens want it." Is there something drastically wrong with Elk County? I think it is a terrific place to live, it doesn't pretend to be a large city, it knows it is largely an agricultural community, it is a pretty friendly community. What is so terribly wrong with that? How frequent are the bank robberies, murders, etc.

You said, "Oh, yes, there is a group trying to do something, isn't there?" Who owns the group as you call it. Who own's Elk Konnected, LLC ? Do you know? What is the structure of the company? Does it have a board of directors, do they have stock holders? All I have seen and heard is the man from Leoti, Kansas that runs yet another company called Public Squares Communities, LLC. He has ran all their so called Community Conversations and he is being paid with taxpayers dollars. He doesn't do what he does for free. He divides the community up into groups and controls almost everything they do. I even heard him try to intimidate people (sorta very politely) at the last meeting to set in his circles. But really what is Elk Konnected, LLC trying to do and how? And do you know for a fact that no one else associated with Elk Konnected, LLC is being paid? Have they shown you their books? Just like Public Squares Community, LLC they claim to provide a service and he is paid good money for his services, after all Public Squares Community, LLC is a business and pays his salary with tax monies collected from communities like ours.

If I was a betting person I'd bet the owners of Elk Konnected,LLC live in Howard and their board of directors or whatever they call their ruling faction.

If Elk Konnected, LLC wants to stay in hiding why don't they continue to operate on donations. They claim to have all those supporters, they started with seed money on supposedly over 60 donating companies and people. But again these must have been people and companies that want to remain part of a secretive organization.

[redcliffsw]

Ever since you boys have been asking questions, they're not into providing answers.

Except for a few defenders, it's been quiet.