The Joy of Ron Paul's 'Liberty Defined'..

[Ross]

When you speak of ethics in politics, are you speaking only of the persons in government, or do you also include ethics in corporate boardrooms? 

If there were any ethics in politics there wouldn't be corporates buying any elected official.  L there were any ethics in politics, politicians would change their answere to a question every time it's asked by a different person.

[srkruzich]

As I have stated in more ways than I care to count - I fear pure unfettered Capitalism as much as I fear pure theoretical Communism.  You obviously do not fear one of them.

UNLIKE Communism, Unfettered capitalism has a control to it that lies in the hands of the people.  They control it with their wallet.  Unfetter greed can only go so far before it hurts those that support it and then the unfettered capitalist will be paying the boatman.

[Patriot]

As I have stated in more ways than I care to count - I fear pure unfettered Capitalism as much as I fear pure theoretical Communism.  You obviously do not fear one of them.

UNLIKE Communism, Unfettered capitalism has a control to it that lies in the hands of the people.  They control it with their wallet.  Unfetter greed can only go so far before it hurts those that support it and then the unfettered capitalist will be paying the boatman.

Steve, please notice that your detractor fears unfettered Capitalism and theoretical Communism.  Inasmuch as fear is diametrically opposed to faith, that fear would necessarily require a 'protector' (other than Providence).   For the progressive, that protector is all too often the state.  You will notice the absence of any fear of statism or socialism.  Also notice the improper reference to Communism vs communism.  The small 'c' version is actually the pure, theoretical, looks good on paper Utopian ideology.  The big 'C' version is what results in practice as the socialist state matures.  Of that Utopian state, there is no fear as it represents the the idolized end result of the progressive faith.

The progressive, since before the days of Wilson and out of the Fabian tradition, places 'faith' in government rather than realizing the historically demonstrated validity of your observation.  The progressive mindset opts for preemptive control by government to assuage their fear of perceived or potential wrongdoings as opposed to limited government controls designed to provide recompense for real wrongdoings.  In short, they seem to want their beloved state to fix stuff that isn't broken.... just in case it might break someday. They are also in denial of the reality that the human tendency is to take their beloved 'government should control/regulate  it' model and turn it into the oppressive condition we see in places like Cuba or Venezuela.  Facts don't matter, feelings do.

[redcliffsw]

Both good posts there, Srkruzich and Patriot.

It's very difficult for modern Americans to accept the liberty as our founding fathers established in our Constitution.
People have a fear that they won't "make it" on their own without the Federal government's help in the form of money or programs.  The socialist gov't is where they place their faith and trust instead of standing for the Cionstitution of our founding fathers.

[srkruzich]

The best example of UNFETTERED Capitalism working for the good is the day Regan deregulated airline, telecommunications and oil industries.   It was then that we saw the real power of Unfettered capitalism bringing down the price of goods.  It inspired pure 100% grade A NON GOVERNMENT created competition and drove the marketplace upwards and everyone profited!  I was working in the 70's and life sucked.  HIGH taxes, regulations, shortages on supplies, housing was even hard to get.  Once regan opened that door of prosperity which lasted 20+ years, here we stand at the door of uber regulation and the same shit different pile of government oppression on business in America.  Obama isn't unique, he is Carter 2.  IF he was unique, he would have stood up and returned us to the republic we should be now.  Man wouldn't that have some forefathers rolling  in their graves.  A black man, a negro holding the same ideals of our forefathers!   

[thatsMRSc2u]

The progressive mindset opts for preemptive control by government to assuage their fear of perceived or potential wrongdoings as opposed to limited government controls designed to provide recompense for real wrongdoings.

  Excuse me but (cough cough) bullshit. I have a very progressive mind-set and a VERY healthy DIS-trust of government. Think the LESS government the BETTER. Don't mistake a truly forward thinking person with a government sheep..they are two distinct things.

  Another thing people are going to HAVE to face is same shit different day polluting freely by corporations to insure profits is NOT going to work any longer. All the money in the world isnt goin to help when ALL the water and air is polluted beyond living. Changes are NEEDED and REQUIRED.

  Now...Yall have a nice day.

[Ross]

Hopefully things will straighten out after the depression.

[srkruzich]

Hopefully things will straighten out after the depression.

well hopefully the depression will strip those in power of their ability to march on to a totalitarian regime.   But i fear it won't.  They have enough gold and silver bought up to weather such a event. 
But i would daresay it could spark a civil war.

[Patriot]

  Excuse me but (cough cough) bullshit. I have a very progressive mind-set and a VERY healthy DIS-trust of government. Think the LESS government the BETTER. Don't mistake a truly forward thinking person with a government sheep..they are two distinct things.

Pam,

I have a healthy respect for your skepticism of of government and big corps.  But while your dictionary definition of 'progressive' as forward thinking is accurate as you use it, you seem to have missed the deceptive adoption of the title 'Progressive' by those ideologues who took it to deceive the masses and shed their former titles:  Socialist and Liberal.  Liberal was an interim usurpation of the language taken to try and cover socialist ideals & titles.  So, politically, the socialist became liberal, and when found out, they adopted progressive.  Just like pro-'choice' conveys a totally misleading & more palatable position than the real position which is pro-abortion.  Convenient how language can be so  abused to mislead so many.  While many of the newer titles are variously interpreted, the public transition from labels of socialism through liberalism to progressivism in America is pretty clear. 

I don't think you really ascribe to the notion of socialism, or the socialist adoption of the labels of Liberal or Progressive.  See if you agree...

Merriam-Webster:

so·cial·ism
noun \ˈsō-shə-ˌli-zəm\
Definition of SOCIALISM

1: any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods
2a : a system of society or group living in which there is no private property
2b : a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state
3: a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done


pro·gres·sive
adj \prə-ˈgre-siv\
Definition of PROGRESSIVE

5 : often capitalized : of or relating to political Progressives

And from Wikipedia:  Progressivism is a political attitude favoring or advocating changes or reform through governmental action.

By definition, I just don't think skepticism of government and the political position of Progressives can get along.  Words are important. 

Perhaps it's safer to say you're a forward thinker who makes independent judgments in matters of politics and industry.

[flintauqua]

And I suppose you don't see the same thing occurring on the right, with reactionaries prefering to be called classical conservatives, even though conservative by definition is to the left of the status quo line, and reactionary is on the right:

Conservative - A person who is satisfied with the system as it is and tends to resist change.  Some conservatives, realizing that things could be improved, will accept gradual, very superficial, and progressive change.  Property rights tend to be very important to conservatives.

Reactionary - A person who would like to see the existing order reversed and favors substituting earlier political institutions for the contemporary system.

I would give the annotation of these word-for-word definitions, but you would just waste some bandwidth trying to attack the source.