Elk Konnected Hand out at County Commissioners meeting on 4/25

[Diane Amberg]

Ross you missed again...try Cecil County Maryland. Try as you might, the differences from here to there are not that great when it comes to education, and certainly nothing to cry about. Your kids have the same number of legs, eat similar foods, watch the same TV shows, go to the same denomination churches, get excited about the same sports and like the same music.  They catch colds and break their arms, and pick on each other and complain about the teachers they don't like. They learn to read English and do the same math and science, learn how Gov't works...and doesn't... and some learn other languages. After an entire career in education, in one way or another, I do know quite a bit about what goes on, as well as what should and shouldn't happen, what is useful and what is destructive to the process. You aren't interested in learning anything new, so go ahead, stay stuck in the past. Block everything that comes along and continue to call the folks liars. That will really help move things along, no matter what it is. Attitudes do count!
Since you are retired now, why not go volunteer in a school and see for yourself what a typical day looks like?
We do have higher numbers of people and more traffic . That alone means means nothing! We also vote down school referendums too. Our last one took three tries and several years to pass before they finally got to make some much needed repairs.
Your kids there do go on to college if they want to, just as ours do, win prizes and scholarships and can do more than just ask if someones wants fries with that, if they choose to do so.
As far as Elk County being poor, it has been since my father lived there...nothing new. If that was so important, ya should have retired to 60 acres in some county with lower taxes!
I feel bad for those out there who have to live with your constant discontent and griping.  CCTP  Or perhaps you just gripe from the safety of the forum?
It would sure be nice if you'd find something in the education system there to be proud of. What a bummer.

[Ross]

Ross you missed again...try Cecil County Maryland. Try as you might, the differences from here to there are not that great when it comes to education, and certainly nothing to cry about. Your kids have the same number of legs, eat similar foods, watch the same TV shows, go to the same denomination churches, get excited about the same sports and like the same music.  They catch colds and break their arms, and pick on each other and complain about the teachers they don't like. They learn to read English and do the same math and science, learn how Gov't works...and doesn't... and some learn other languages. After an entire career in education, in one way or another, I do know quite a bit about what goes on, as well as what should and shouldn't happen, what is useful and what is destructive to the process. You aren't interested in learning anything new, so go ahead, stay stuck in the past. Block everything that comes along and continue to call the folks liars. That will really help move things along, no matter what it is. Attitudes do count!
Since you are retired now, why not go volunteer in a school and see for yourself what a typical day looks like?

I deeply apologize for what I am about to say.
You are so completely arrogantly ignorant with all your organizational brain washing. No one on this earth could have been brain washed better than you. There you have been told the honest to goodness truth!  Who deprived you of the ability to comprehend anything?

If you were able to comprehend you would be so busy understanding your own local problems you would have no time to entertain us with your foolishness. The only difference I have pointed out about kids is ours live here and yours live in La, La land with you. Thank God!

We do have higher numbers of people and more traffic . That alone means means nothing! We also vote down school referendums too. Our last one took three tries and several years to pass before they finally got to make some much needed repairs.
Your kids there do go on to college if they want to, just as ours do, win prizes and scholarships and can do more than just ask if someones wants fries with that, if they choose to do so.

I find the continuance of brainwashed organizational babble with a lack of understanding terribly, terribly insulting, how can you continue to compare Apples and Oranges? Where did you Say you Got your degree from? I want to make sure no one I knows goes there. I suppose you thank Obama nightly for being our countries savior.

As far as Elk County being poor, it has been since my father lived there...nothing new. If that was so important, ya should have retired to 60 acres in some county with lower taxes!

Who the hell are you to tell me what I should or should not do.
You really are that arrogantly ignorant.
Perhaps you should retire to the Ukrain?
Rather Stupid isn't it?
Did your friends at Elk Konnected put you up to being this stupid?

Do you really have a college degree?

As far as was what happened 100 years ago is not important as far as going 5 or 6 Million dollars in debt today, now is it?

But since you brought it up there was a time, not to many decades ago Elk County was a thriving area, but again that has nothing to do with today. Can you comprehend that?

I have tried to explaine to you with numbers called statistics the
Geo-political difference between Elk County and Delaware!

I have tried to explaine to you with numbers called statistics the
Geo-financial difference between Elk County and Delaware!

I have tried to explaine to you with numbers called statistics the
Geo- location difference between Elk County and Delaware! 

And it has all been to no avail, I feel sorry for you and your lack of comprehension
of the facts. My prayers are for you.

I feel bad for those out there who have to live with your constant discontent and griping.  CCTP  Or perhaps you just gripe from the safety of the forum?

I don't believe any one has asked for your Delaware pity, so sit on it!

Arrogant ignorance coupled with a degree must be some kind of a blessing.
Thank you Diane, for the entertainment,  tell your Konnected friends it is getting real old the way they use kids to attempt to get what they want and  using you in the same fashion is not so graceful either. LOL

So now, that is what political discussions are these days, discontent and gripping, I understand very well Mr. Obama.

It would sure be nice if you'd find something in the education system there to be proud of. What a bummer.

What the heck do you think is the most important thing for children?
Be careful now this is multiple choice and there is a test afterwards.
Take you time, this is not a timed test.

1.   A school with better teaching standards ?
2.   A new gymnasium and a multi-million dollar debt ?

Here are some hints:

Our country is falling behind most other developed countries on educational standards and even the Federal Government and our State Government has stated that our educational standards have fallen drastically over the years.

Another pop quiz for you:
Multiple choice like the first one.

Who is responsible for the School Districts EducationalStandards?

1.   The Elected Officials on the School Board.
2.   The Students.

Please take your time; I understand pop tests can be extremely difficult for some people.

Keep up the attitude Diane and the good work in your community.
I have really enjoyed conversing with you; you make e feel highly intelligent.
Thank You so very much. Rest peaceful, I have faith that the majority of Elk County will do the right thing when they get to the ballot box and that it will only be Howard approving anything by themselves, which will still be a loss for Howard.

Be SMART, be SENSIBLE, be FRUGAL, re-open the Moline Grade School and save millions and problems solved.

Be SMART, Be SENSIBLE, Be FRUGAL, Just say," NO "

[Diane Amberg]

You don't converse.You attack and frankly, it makes you look ridiculous. How is attacking me ,where I live, who I am and what I do helping your sinking ship? I'd think you'd want help where ever it is available since you don't think you own folks have the brains to solve all the problems by doing as you tell them.Too bad. Shaking my head as I hit ignore.

[Ross]

You don't converse.You attack. and frankly it makes you look ridiculous. How is attacking me ,where I live, who I am and what I do helping your sinking ship? I'd think you'd want help where ever it is available since you don't think you own folks have the brains to solve all the problem by doing as you tell them.Too bad. Shaking my head as I hit ignore.

Bye-bye Diane until the next time them Konnected folks sick you on me.

[Ross]

Last nights School Board meeting, on 12.09.13 what a hoot!


The parts of it I could hear, that is! These people either don't understand the purpose behind a "PUBLIC" School Board Meeting or don't care!

So to enlighten them little the purpose of a "PUBLIC" School Board Meeting is so the public can be aware of what their governing body is doing. They should speak loudly enough for all to hear. They should refrain from talking over the top of each other out of courtesy as well as allowing for clear communication. Or simply put, be professional in their meetings.

Now some of what I heard:

Hiring Harrods to put a crown on the football field for $5,000 dollars, so they would have a more professional football field. I asked myself really? Do they have a professional football club? Do they have a professional football team?

Why can't we have a more professional School Board Meeting? A more professional School Board Meeting would not cost $5,000 it would only cost some common courtesy and better behavior.

Then I heard how they wanted special folding padded chairs for score keepers or something, with a special logo and possibly a logo to place on the gym floor. So they would have a more professional looking gym. Again, I asked myself really? Do they have a professional basketball or volleyball club? Do they have a professional basketball or volleyball team? Not putting the job out for bids means less chance of getting a good price, too.

And I asked myself again: Why can't we have a more professional School Board Meeting? A more professional School Board Meeting would not cost $5,000 it would only cost some common courtesy and better behavior.

Then I heard the Superintendent start discussing the ACA or more commonly known as ObamaCare. They plan to hire a law firm to help the figure out how to deal with the situation. I think that may be a good idea. But, they discussed cutting the workers hours back to 35 hours a week as a solution and it was suggested to give those workers a pay raise of $3 an hour. And I wondered will those workers be able to afford health insurance on a $3 an hour pay raise ~~~ that's $105 a week before taxes, but then they have to meet those high medical deductibles. But oh well. The most important thing I heard during this conversation was from the School Superintendent, if I heard him right and I believe I did. He said they were having enough trouble staying on budget. And I am thinking, really?

Professional looking Football Field, ka-ching ~~~ $5,000 and professional looking gymnasium ~~~ ka-ching ~~~ who knows how much. And there was more but I could not hear it.

But there, I sit still wondering why we can't have a professional type of a School Board Meeting. Then the Computer Technician takes to the floor and says he is going to set up microphones and record the Meeting with the public about the proposed construction and post it on the schools web site.  Right there you have it folks, just what I have suggested right here on this forum. They have the capability, the tools and the technology to do the School Board Meetings and they could even live stream the meetings.

And they had the gall to say us old folks didn't understand how important technology is. But to them I guess it is only important if they are trying to sell the public something.
There was talk of having a bus engine replaced and once again not putting the job out for bids.  And the information they received was so scatter brained I don't understand how they could vote on getting the work done. Especially when they asked if they would get a core charge back from one of the companies and the answer was I think so. What the heck is that all about? I would think they would need better information than that to make a decision worth over ten thousand dollars. Don't you? And once again not put out for bids.

Where is the professionalism in this school board?

Pleas remember I don't ask you to believe anything I say, it is all just my opinion. I hope you will discuss the school district and what they are doing with your friends.

Be SMART, be SENSIBLE, be FRUGAL, re-open the Moline Grade School and save millions and problems solved.

Be SMART, Be SENSIBLE, Be FRUGAL, Just say," NO "
   

[Ross]

Here is a suggestion for the school board, get off the kick of building a Taj Mahal for Howard and concentrate on education.

Just out, I recieved this by e-mail, poverty stricken children can be taught, so drop tht old stroy sayig otherwise.

Want to end poverty? Educate the kids

By Mary C. Tillotson
December 9, 2013

Part 36 of 37 in the series Educating America

Poor kids can learn. That's what some school and education activists are shouting from on high after the results of an international test showed American students performing at  mediocre levels.



D.C. Prep serves low-income students whose test scores often surpass those of students in the wealthiest part of Washington, D.C.

While some blamed the stagnant scores on poverty, others point out that impoverished Vietnam outscored many wealthier countries, including the United States, in math and science. And others say the secret to success really isn't a secret at all. It's just takes hard work — lots of hard work.

More than 1,200 students, from age 3 to 8th grade, attend D.C. Prep, a public charter school network in the District of Columbia. About 82 percent of students qualify for free or reduced-price lunch, a marker of poverty. Many of them are homeless.

"When the kids come to us, they are often below grade level, but it's because they have been underschooled. It's not in the locus of that child, it's because they've had a really crummy school and haven't been well-educated," said Ibby Jeppson, director of resource development at D.C. Prep.

Students who attended from age 4 to fourth graders are testing equal to or better than kids in the most affluent parts of the nation's capital.

"We have close
d the so-called achievement gap, which says to me, 'Of course you can educate low-income kids. You just need to get them a great school. You have to believe in them and focus on what they need,'" she said

Almost all the students – 95 percent – go on to graduate from high school, and 80 percent enroll in college. Of those that enroll, 72 percent persist in college. That's compared to a 56 percent graduation rate from D.C. Public Schools.

Nothing in the school system is novel or radical, Jeppson said.

"Many of the things we do are things you'd see in any high performing urban environment. Kids wear uniform. We have a longer school day. We have very high expectations. We do a tremendous amount of assessing kids, continuous assessment to make sure they're understanding and mastering the material, and we have A-plus-plus-plus-plus teachers. They're amazing," she said. "There's not a secret."

The school also teaches character-building skills, from "use your words" and "be a friend" for the youngest students to conflict resolution and self-advocacy for older students.

The school keeps an open-door policy for alumni, providing support for the transition into high school, applying to college and for financial aid, and finding support in college.

Poverty is not a good excuse for a bad educational system, but rather a reason to make an even greater effort to help every student succeed, said Kevin Chavous, executive counsel with the America Federation for Children and former board chairman of the Black Alliance for Educational Options.

"In nearly every case, if you get one kid in poverty educated, that starts to break the cycle," he said.

At a reception for a scholarship program in Louisiana, Chavous met several mothers of scholarship recipients; many of those mothers had dropped out of school. Some couldn't read.

"One by one, these mothers stood up and started talking about how seeing their kids be excited about school has changed their view of school and excited possibilities for them. Four or five of them said they signed up to get their GED," he said. "Once you break that cycle and you can see how education can be transformative, it can be positively infectious."

While a student's social status might influence achievement, it's not the only factor, said Michael Petrilli, executive vice president at the Thomas B. Fordham Institute.

"(Poverty) can explain something about why our students don't do so well. It doesn't explain why we do worse in math than we do in reading. It doesn't explain why our affluent kids do poorly compared to affluent kids in other countries, or why we produce so few high achievers," Petrilli said, referring to the results of the Programme for International Student Assessment, known as PISA, administered by the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development.

"If the argument is that schools are doing as well as they could be considering where their kids are coming from, I don't think that adds up," he said.

Finding solutions

Dozens of schools follow a model similar to D.C. Prep's, and schools with large low-income demographics should imitate those models, Chavous said. That could mean longer school days, summer academies, weekend programs, staff nurses, social workers and meal programs.

"The big challenge we have is that the work rules of the school bureaucracies have led us to say, 'We can't do it,' as opposed to breaking down the politics and doing the things we know work," he said.

"One teacher said to me, 'I can't account for what happens to this kid when they're not in my classroom, but I've got them six, seven hours a day, and I'm going to make sure they get from Point A to Point B,'" he said. "That's got to be the approach."

"No excuses" urban charter schools like D.C. Prep are providing some of the best education for students living in high poverty areas, Petrilli said.

"They tend to have super high expectations for kids. They just talk about college all the time, they have a really strong curriculum, they hire great teachers, they have a longer day and school year," he said. "It's nothing radical, it's just better and they do more of it."

But all that takes a lot of effort and commitment. It's hard on teachers and often causes burnout, Petrilli said. Because of that, those models may be difficult to scale up.

Increased technical and vocational training for students who won't go to a four-year or even two-year universities and colleges would give students skills and credentials that will help them land a job where they can make a decent living and move into the middle class, he said.

But whatever form it takes, Chavous said, a good education is the ticket out of poverty.

"In the meantime, yes, we need to make sure we have right nutrition programs, social service programs in place, and all those things," he said, "but if we get our people educated, that's the biggest long-term solution."

http://watchdog.org/119077/education-poverty

The series starts here: http://watchdog.org/106956/arizona-empowerment-scholarships/

Improved Educational Standards the pathway to Better Jobs, Stronger Families, Better Comm and Better Quality of Life !

[Ross]

Sorry Ross, trying to insulting me will not ever solve your problems.

(F)

I don't have to try to insult you. You do it all on your own. (C)

I not only do comprehent what I read,

(F)

When do you comprehend what you read? Please see the quote below asking about the school shootings and my response. There is the proof you do not comprehend what you read.

I'm not even sure you comprehend what you type. For instance the way you spelled comprehend in the above statement, and all the times you have applied yourself as the self appointed spelling police on this forum. Oh well, be that as it may, it's your own doing. (C)

I  comprehend what's in beteen the lines and know what you are trying to do with your between the lines assumptions, distractions and misleading attempts to slide the reader off subject and take control.

(F)


I have never tried to take control nor do I write between the lines. You are gravely mistaken. And a very poor wordsmith. (C)

We have a female "you" here too. She is you all over. She is very rude and manipulative and has no respect for those in charge or those who won their positions.. The chairs have to be very careful of her, because she tries to take over meetings and direct them to where ever she wants to go. She has to constantly be reminded that her whims are not on the agenda and it's not the public's turn to speak.

(F)

If telling people to ignore what I say and to think for them selves is disrespectful and controlling and rude, I plead guilty. But I must say your concept of things seem to be terribly screwed up for an educated person! And the use of such
Banal language is what I would expect from a proud redneck hick like myself. (C)

Your practice of bringing up things that are years old, as if they just happened, with different people even, is very disappointing and seems to be a failing attempt to keep things stirred up.

(F)

Who told me that Howard has been known as How-weird for years? Who was that? Oh it was you wasn't it? How embarrassing for you?

I have only brought up recent things from the last 7 or 8 years that are highly relevant. You brought up How-weird, how old would you say that is. How-weird of a question is that for you? (C)

Get over it.You are still assuming you know what's on the school board's mind, with no proof....and you won't accept what people present as facts. I truly don't know what you are trying to do. People have heard your position over and over and over.It appears many do not agree, end of issue. Some have tried to explain to you but, you rudely snub them.... your own residents!

(F)

It appears nothing "Darlin", yer cornfused is all ! I don't snub nobody. To snub is to ignore, or spurn disdainfully. I even repond to you Becase I like you. Next time  you are in Elk County let me know and I'll treat you to a piece of pie and a cup of coffee at the Swing Bridge Café, okay. OK

Oh, those residents you speak of, would that be the Elk konnected residents?
Sure, I have read their ideas about sports and that perhaps they don't believe that an effeciency expert could make the school more productive and space saving. (C)

Don't bother answering, I'm going back to ignore and won't see it any more than others will who have already been worn out and put you on ignore some time ago. I only read someod you because i wanted to know what Wilma had been talking about. Sadly, I wasn't surprised.

(F)

Spelling my dear, spelling and capitalization, like you tell every one else. (F)
Why are you asking me to snub you? Don't you think that would be rude of me?
I always respond to you as a figment of my imagination! (C)

I waited a bit to respond to this, but to answer Ross's question about where school shootings happen....in 2006, the Nickle Mines Amish one room school shooting happened in very rural PA. Six kids were killed and 5 more were severly injured. Don't try to tell me that they don't count.

(F)

The question was:

I must ask what small rural community with a distance of 60 t0 80 mile from the nearest large city has had a shooting?

Please provide an internet link.

Thank you.

(C)

Bart Township, PA via PA-896 N and PA-741 W is 18.0 mi, 31 mins to Lancaster, PA. Well with in the 60 to 80 mile range.  Please refer to the quote above.(C)

I graded this posts with a (C) for me because I attempted to do well. And because I am a retired proud unedumacted redneck hick, who means well.

I graded you with an (F) because you are suppose to be highly educated with one of them thar degree papers or two. And because of the lack of wordsmithing on your part.

This is a lot of fun, 10-4 good buddy, come back! If you wish to respond Diane, please respond on this thread. Thank You! If you choose not to respond on this thread I will drag your response over here anyway. How's that for manipulating? I am doing this because you say you are not interested, let's see. LOL
Also to cut down on the possibility of me getting more cornfused, okay, OK!

Ain't this just too much fun and entertaining, Diane?

Every one please remember there are always alternatives to wasting Millions of Taxpayer Dollars and making taxes so unbearable that no one would want to move here. Especially since no one is moving here anyway. And what better reason for kids to live somewhere other than here with family, than really high property taxes.

One suggested alternative, I hope someone has a better suggestion!

Be SMART, be SENSIBLE, be FRUGAL, re-open the Moline Grade School and save millions and problems solved.

Be SMART, Be SENSIBLE, Be FRUGAL, Just say," NO "

[Diane Amberg]

You do not get to choose what is "rural". You are not a demographer and neither am I.  Look up rural school shootings and see what you find. See how the trends are changing from big city to suburbs and rural. In the mean time you really are a squirrel. A very guilty squirrel. It's your own Elk County kids who came up with How-weird. Stick your nose up all you want. WE are not amused.
As far as my spelling, it's not spelling I can't do, it's typing ,as I've always said. Sure, I miss words sometimes when I don't spell check, but its the fingers, not the brain that goofs me up and not as many as 7-1O ten per post and have poor grammar too like one I know... Ahem!. How come you mention mine but never your own? I'd be really busy if I took the time to lay out ALL of your spelling errors. I skip most of them and since I have you on ignore most of the time now, I don't even see them. You are a real seasonal fruit cake for sure. No more from me. You are a total waste of time. Back to ignore....do your worst. No wonder people complain how annoying you can be. Say about me what makes you feel better, I won't ever see it.... and stop picking on the the others too, they don't deserve it just for having different ideas.

[Ross]

Gibberish?  Tell that to the families of those rural school kids who diesd? You sir are beyond hope. I will never converse with you again, period

It is Gibberish because it did not answer the question properly!
You would give an "F " to a grade school student for such an answer, teacher.
Read the question until you comprehend it!
You definitely rate an "F" on comprehension teacher.
Aren't you embarrassed? 

Hint: Try to comprehend the vicinity of the shootings as related to Metropolitan areas?

Here is the question again quoted with its original typographical error:

I must ask what small rural community with a distance of 60 t0 80 mile from the nearest large city has had a shooting?

Please provide an internet link.

Thank you.

See the post at http://www.cascity.com/howard/forum/index.php/topic,11780.msg215724.html#msg215724  and this post also.

And don't forget:

Be SMART, be SENSIBLE, be FRUGAL, re-open the Moline Grade School and save millions and problems solved.

Be SMART, Be SENSIBLE, Be FRUGAL, Just say," NO "

[Ross]

You do not get to choose what is "rural". You are not a demographer and neither am I. 

You don't get to give orders either, Sergeant. Better luck next time!

Look up rural school shootings and see what you find. See how the trends are changing from big city to suburbs and rural.

Someone else brought up the topic about small town school shootings. My question was, quoting once again:

I must ask what small rural community with a distance of 60 t0 80 mile from the nearest large city has had a shooting?

Please provide an internet link.

Thank you.

If you take note all those rural small town school shootings are in the proximity of large metropolitan areas.

You apparently can not find one 60 to 80 miles away from a large metropolitan area, so you get pissed and try to give orders as shown in the first of this post. My sympathy for you exceeds your anger.

In the mean time you really are a squirrel. A very guilty squirrel. It's your own Elk County kids who came up with How-weird. Stick your nose up all you want.

I can't be no squirrel, I don't like nuts. Get it straight. I'se a proud, unedumacted, redneck, hick. Why do you find that so difficult to comprehend?

What am I guilty of? And are you the Judge and jury? If so, just break oth the rope for a hangin', I'm ready to meet my maker! Goodby cruel world! Hey that's a song from a long time ago. LOL
But I never heard of How-weird from no kids, unless you consider yourself a kid, from here? Is that it you consider yourself a kid fro here? LOL

I don't stick my nose up, I ain't no elite type. So you be wrong again! Sorry about that girl.

WE are not amused.

Who is we?
Ya'all got multiple personalities going on there with all that anger?
Let it out girl, let it out and get happy?

As far as my spelling, it's not spelling I can't do, it's typing ,as I've always said. Sure, I miss words sometimes when I don't spell check, but its the fingers, not the brain that goofs me up and not as many as 7-1O ten per post and have poor grammar too life one I know... Ahem!. How come you mention mine but never your own?

My errors speak for themselves, don't you see?
But you are highly educated and I ain't. And I don't tell everyone else about their errors like you do. Didn't they have typing class when you was schoolin?

I'd be really busy if I took the time to lay out ALL of your spelling errors. I skip most of them and since I have you on ignore most of the time now, I don't even see them.

On , for sure, you'd be busier than a cat on a hot tin roof kerrectin my errors. I'se not edumacted liken you'ns. LOL

How's come if you got me on ignore, you are paying me so much attention ?
Boy, I hope you keep me on ignore causin I couldn't handle any more attention than I'm getting from you now. I'd have to ask for help from someone. So thank goodness for ignore.

You are a real seasonal fruit cake for sure. No more from me. You are a total waste of time.

No, I ain't seasonal nothing, I am constant!
I just don't believe you mean that! A total waste of time? Really?
I didn't think you highly edumacted types with docoumented diplomas wasted yer time! Didn't they teach you better at dat college place? Or are you lying to me?

Back to ignore....do your worst. No wonder people complain how annoying you can be. Say about me what makes you feel better, I won't ever see it.... and stop picking on the the others too, they don't deserve it just for having different ideas.

Now you know you never left ignore.
Who is complainin but you?
I ain't pickin on nobody, I got no diploma.
Now don't you stop playing with me, peoples likes it.
ROFLMAO.

A small reminder Diane there is always more than one solution to any situation, even this situation you have developed with me. One solution is simply to accept that you have no legitimate answers, and to let go of the anger and laugh. Nighty night, Diane. I hope i aswered all your questions, I did my best. LOL

Here is another suggestion:

Be SMART, be SENSIBLE, be FRUGAL, re-open the Moline Grade School and save millions and problems solved.

Be SMART, Be SENSIBLE, Be FRUGAL, Just say," NO "