Elk Konnected Hand out at County Commissioners meeting on 4/25

[jarhead]

Quote from Diane:
You sure aren't getting much response.
IMHO, people who live there and are are personally affected, are tired of it and have moved on to looking at things from different angles now. They don't think you will ever be satisfied,are a chronic complainer, and have disconnected

So says who ? The 6-7 cheerleaders you correspond with ? Maybe the responses have slacked off due to the fact that most of the people have a life away from their keyboard

[Ross]

Anybody is free to read or ignore me as always. I wanted YOUR personal opinion ,period.
You must have serious amnesia problems if you truly don't remember what Cat and others have said collectively about the space in the school and how it's used. ( peanut gallery?)

As far as where I live... Do you not remember or are you twisting my tail?  If I was in NJ I'd probably be rebuilding now ..I do not live in the north east. It's a mid Atlantic state and the latitude isn't that much different from yours. I guess you cut your geography classes, huh?
Where I live is immaterial to this and I was in no way comparing you to here. I was comparing you to what others there have already said.

That was my point where you live doesn't matter. The fact that you do not live here and are not a citizen. And do not vote or pay taxes is the important thing. Which contributes to your ignorance of what is happening here in Elk County. And a reason you don't recognize the wrong doing happening here. IMO!

As far as my "ancestors,'' I' m not sure what you are driving at. They were all very pro education, but how could I possibly know about the question?" They aren't alive to ask!

Did your ancestors have outsider facilitators telling them how to live?
Did they?

To simplify it!
Did anyone in Elk County ever hear of a facilitator, let alone a Professional Facilitator before Elk Konnected, LLC came along?

Did your mamma or daddy ever hire an outsider from the other side of the state to think for them, or to tell them how to live their lives in Elk County or anywhere else they may have lived?

Is that simple enough for you Diane?

As far as education changing...I support it however it comes .Surely you know that by now! Home schooling...sure,why not. Long distance learning? It's not new. Some remote areas have always done it. Practical education for today's kids? absolutely. More state control...sure, up to a point.

What does that have to do with building a new school. Absolutely nothing.

That was not the point of the post, but I suppose that makes no difference to you!

But let's look at it this way:
Even, if they are bullshitting you and ignoring the fact that you are a voter, a taxpayer and a citizen?
Even, if they want to double your property tax to put a chandelier on top of the flag post?
You would gladly support such actions?
Yes, that is extreme but that is the point.
You would gladly support it, right?

Just like building a Taj Mahal in one of the poorest counties in Kansas, you would support that as well, right?
You are aware there is a world wide monetary crisis happening?
You have heard of austerity, right?
You are aware of our drought situation and the financial impact it could have on Elk County, right?
Just what the hell do you base your thinking on?
Besides spending OPM (Other Peoples Money)?

Well, you may just make a huge donation in support of a support group. $5.5 million should cover all their wants don't you think? That should cover the cost of a Taj Mahal near Howard? But will it improve the education to make West Elk a Blue Ribbon School? NO!

We still have to compete in a 24 hour a day world setting, not just in little local enclaves unless those kids are to be powerless to go anywhere else to live and work.I'm not being mean .We see it here even now. Kids who come in from some states are at least a year behind! It's not fair to them. 

Again: What does that have to do with building a new school.
Absolutely nothing.

As far as teacher testing... Most states give those tests in college, before teaching certificates are awarded in the first place. I remember taking mine and it was very difficult. Like taking medical boards, but for teaching.

Give me a break! You broached the subject of testing teachers and I guess I have to repeat myself, so here goes.

First you said:

I would be interested in knowing what you mean by ''better'' teachers. Are you saying your teachers now are not good at what they do? Why do you think a pay increase would make them better teachers?
How would you rate them? A teacher test? Student performance? Parent satisfaction?  Professional observations? Advanced degrees?

I said:

But yes, testing could be done. I know back in the eighties the State of Texas did it state wide. And a considerable number of teachers were found to be unable to pass the test, even given three attempts with study in between testing.

To add to that, I do have a cousin and her husband that are both retired school teachers.
One was an excellent teacher and the other not so excellent. So, yes, not all school teachers are equal.

I am just accommodating you, because you can't seem to stay on topic.

But your whole interest here seems to be, who can you blame. Is that really constructive? You sure aren't getting much response.
IMHO, people who live there and are are personally affected, are tired of it and have moved on to looking at things from different angles now. They don't think you will ever be satisfied,are a chronic complainer, and have disconnected.  You have had your elections. How about giving your commissioners a chance to settle in?

Is that the best you can do as put down? If calling a concerned citizen a chronic complainer is the right thing to do, I plead guilty as hell.

Oh, you are so right as a concerned parent, a concerned taxpayer, as a voter and as a concerned citizen that lives here. I am totally dis-konnected from small groups of failures. Thank you for mentioning that, I truly appreciate that. But you failed to put the "K" on that connected. That is not the proper spelling here in Elk County, sorry about that? But you are over a thousand miles away, so I understand!

Even spelling is changing along with cursive being dropped around the country by the education system and with texting.

Great points, Diane.

But back on subject.

Will a costly Taj Mahal outside of Howard improve West Elk to a Blue Ribbon School?

[Ross]

Quote from Diane:
You sure aren't getting much response.
IMHO, people who live there and are are personally affected, are tired of it and have moved on to looking at things from different angles now. They don't think you will ever be satisfied,are a chronic complainer, and have disconnected

So says who ? The 6-7 cheerleaders you correspond with ? Maybe the responses have slacked off due to the fact that most of the people have a life away from their keyboard

Sorry Jarhead, I had to respond at least one more time.
I was so enjoying the conversation with Diane.

But enough is enough. So it's break time.

Do you realize how long it takes this old salt and redneck to hunt and peck all these keys?
I think my dog could do it faster. LOL

[redcliffsw]

There was a communist group over east of Cedar Vale in the 1870's.  These communists owned
and leased a half section of land in the name of "The Progressive Community".  Like its counterpart
in Russia, it was not successful.

Nowadays, the communists want all to contribute by and thru the government tax system to their causes.

Ross, stay right in there.  There's folks in Elk County who support liberty.

[Mom70x7]

Document, please - not just hearsay:

There are plenty of solutions for the school board to give serious consideration to during these financially trying times. For instance, repeating myself,
•   Re-opening the Moline Grade School
•   Considering that the West Elk school building was designed to hold 600 students and the district only has 300.
•   Wasn't West Elk built for 600 students hoping for growth in the communities of Elk County?
•   From what little I have seen of the school building there is plenty of wasted floor space in the offices.
•   Consider moving the offices of the school Superintendent and principle in one office in the main building. And if you give it some serious thought you only need one principle for one building. This would save on school expenditures. You could also cut half of the staff freeing up more floor space and saving more tax dollars. This could then open of the district office to be used for class rooms.

What document or official says the building was designed to hold 600 students?
What office(s) have wasted floor space?
Where, in the high school, would you put the Superintendent's office, the Board Secretary's office, the District Secretary's office, the Special Ed office, the Transportation office (so you could, as you imply, close the district office)? If you put classes in the district office, aren't you just trading room occupants and not really freeing up new space?
Which staff would you specifically cut?
How would that fee up more floor space?

Ross, to have a serious discussion, specifics need to be mentioned, not just rumors. I think if these are some of the solutions you are proposing, then you need to be more detailed, not just generalities.

Thanks.

I work in the high school and don't see any of these as viable.

PS - Not discussing re-opening Moline and Severy at this time. That's a separate topic.

[Ross]

Mom70x7 you are very much entitled to your opinion, just as I am.

My opinion is, that before engaging in incurring more debt for the taxpayers because Howard or an NGO wants a Taj Mahal outside of Howard, some proper studies should be performed!

Does hiring a University to send down several Professors to perform a study about the school district qualify? Apparently the school board and district superintendent thought so! I was told they received a good report from the university. So why did the district refuse to post the report and not let the voters and citizens see it?

Does hiring yet anther person, a single man, a Professor and Professional Facilitator, qualify over several Professors and a Whole University, does he alone, by himself, Qualify more to do the job?

In my opinion it is simply a set up, for someone to bamboozle the taxpayers, much in the same way that Chautauqua County citizens were bamboozled, into building their new county jail. Now those folks will most likely have much higher taxes to pay for a very long time. 

I work in the high school and don't see any of these as viable.

PS - Not discussing re-opening Moline and Severy at this time. That's a separate topic.

Perhaps because you work at the school and work for the taxpayers, just perhaps you are to close to the situation to see with an open mind. Do you perhaps consider yourself to be Konnected? This is a very important question and deserves an answer in my opinion! If no answer, I would simply have to considered you as Konnected, thank you.

Here on the forum anything is open for discussion. And I have only suggested considering the Moline Grade School nothing about Severy.

PS - Not discussing re-opening Moline and Severy at this time. That's a separate topic.

No, I disagree with you. This is about the Konnected President of the School Board and possibly an NGO, thinking they need to build more school to house the children. And the Moline Grade School in my opinion still provides a viable solution and should be considered. Or does it matter about taxing the hell out of property owners?

So you have insider information about who is discussing what inside the walls of West Elk, is that what you are saying?

But once again you are entitled to your opinion, just as I am.


I have only made suggestions, not demands! Therefore there is no requirement for me to provide any proof at this time. Just like you saying you work there and see no spare room, perhaps you are looking at the wrong places, perhaps you don't want to see the unused space for some reason. And I am not saying that to be ugly, just a suggestion.

If the district can afford to throw away money for a University and a Professor/Professional Facilitator don't you suppose they could afford to utilize a reputable firm to provide an engineer and an architect to provide information about adjusting the building to handle all the school children? Wouldn't an engineer and an architect be more qualified than a Professor and professional facilitator to make a determination of that nature? That building is huge!

Or as I previously suggested why not put the children back in the MOLINE Grade school which has all the amenities and would be much cheaper to do a few repairs to? Is it because Howard doesn't want to bus their children out of town, but it's okay for everyone else to?

Is this really all about the children? Or is it just about building that Taj Mahal at great expense to the taxpayers?

Another thought, does West Elk really need two principals and a superintendent for one campus?

The Elk Valley School District has ONE school principle for their grade school campus that also serves as District Superintendent and his office is located right there in the high school. That surely saves the district tons of money, I bet. So why are we paying for unnecessary personnel? Is it that Elk Valley has a far more qualified District Superintendent/Principal? Or is it because West Elk needs the jobs for friends and family of certain people?
What I am suggesting efficiency so the school could recruit and maintain better teachers just as the Professor/Professional Facilitator told us at the open meeting he was facilitating.   Perhaps the school board might throw some money away at an efficiency expert? Major companies do it all the time.

Just suggestions, nothing more.

What is really going on behind the scene?        Real Question?

And if you haven't noticed I am full of questions, because I don't have any answers, just suggestions. I also feel other people should be questioning what is going on, because they are also being asked to pay for it.

What ever it is?

Is there a problem with people questioning their local government?
Do you approve of everything the federal government does?



 

[Diane Amberg]

OK Ross, now I understand your one question.
No, as far as I know neither of my parents ever hired anyone relating to our schools. They both were country folk and were never on their respective school boards. Actually,here the duPont family dictated much of how several schools operated .They built them and caused the consolidation of many little country one room school houses back in the 30's. They chose to build the new Kennett Consolidated School in Kennett Square PA. Kids were bused there from many miles away. But in those days transportation was cheap. I myself rode the bus for 40 min. every bus ride.
There was a school board of course ,but guess who actually ran it?   They also pretty much own the UD  College of Engineering. Students who do well there are just about guaranteed a job later.  Yes, I digress.
By the way, I most certainly am a citizen!
As far as comments about my not being on topic....Red, your local gopher pops up with his usual speech in the middle of ANY topic. I find that very funny and entertaining.
 Ross, I'm surprised that you don't think your local people can decide what is right for them. Perhaps many actually want the expertise of a professional to help with such a sticky and important topic.
I was on here when the other proposal was made a few years back ,saw the plans and read all the comments. I do understand the little towns  fighting for their individuality and having a local school is certainly part of that. But when any one place doesn't have critical mass to support their own version of everything, something has to give.
Reopening mothballed schools isn't cheap either. Depending on how long the school has been closed, the new technology isn't in place and other systems are expensively out of date. We've seen that here too as population shifts around and there are child boomlets or decreased population in certain ages. Of course those things can be predicted in advance in many cases. It's not just a matter of shifting kids or floor space, but I'll not waste your time trying to explain that to you. Different grades and different subjects have different needs.
Are you going to step up and publicly accuse your school board of the"bamboozlement'' you seem to think is happening? Or will you just complain here? Have any of you asked to see the report?
You really want a Blue Ribbon school? It certainly can be done, but it takes parents, teachers ,the school board, a good curriculum and children who are ready to learn working together to do it.
It's gently snowing big fluffy flakes right now and it is absolutely beautiful!. Have a nice day.

[daisy]

There is only one principal at West Elk for grades pre-K through 12th.  The superintendent has triple duty of being a superintendent, food management, and the director of the special education department for the coop that consists of Sedan, Elk Valley, and West Elk. 

[Mom70x7]

Perhaps because you work at the school and work for the taxpayers, just perhaps you are to close to the situation to see with an open mind. Do you perhaps consider yourself to be Konnected? This is a very important question and deserves an answer in my opinion! If no answer, I would simply have to considered you as Konnected, thank you.

I'll give you an answer, even though you did not answer my specific questions.

Yes, I like Elk Konnected. I think they have done good things for the children of Elk County, provided them with group activities they would not have had without Elk Konnected. I haven't attended their meetings. I don't feel the need to; I trust the people I know.

Yes, I work for the taxpayers and I'm proud to do so. I'm diligent in my work and, as most school employees do, donate time and resources to the school.

However - that has nothing to do with space at the high school. Yes, I work there. I work in a room that is used constantly throughout the day. We have no extra space. As a matter of fact, because the room is used continually, there are some activities that cannot take place - we don't have the space for them.

Now, my questions, that you have not yet answered:
Who, or what document, said the school was built for 600 students? I think you can't continue with that figure without some proof. Otherwise, it's just hearsay and gossip, not discussion.

What office space is wasted? If you can't provide specific ideas, then it's just speculation and gossip, not a fact.

What staff would you cut? Which staff members are not needed? What floor space would be saved by cutting staff?

Without specific, productive suggestions, I don't see a discussion happening.

[readyaimduck]

[quoteThis is about the Konnected President of the School Board and possibly an NGO, thinking....][/quote]

and that, right there is the topic for today!

Space???  how dare you mom70x7 to ask Ross for documented specifics specifics.  You SHOULD have asked:  "Why hasn't the facilitator, that we as taxpayers paid for, thought of how to minimize that space?" Have they even see the school rooms on a regular unscheduled visit"  Are they Konnected too?  (tongue out of cheek now)

Ross, Should people ask questions of our Government?   Yes
Do we always look at the decisions as favorable?  No.  Why? 
In this scenario, the WHOLE picture is what matters.....education, teachers, and Pride.

You, my dear have taken this School  issue and attached a wide paint brush to paint one, but many small negative pictures .
The local county government is one thing.....however to spill this theory over to the school district (yes, I understand a KONEECTED member is one of the GROUP!) is another..

goat head (my term for go ahead) and pick me apart.  Seperately my statements will mean something totally different than the WHOLE concept of my idea.

If you didn't elect the members of the school board to bid your calling as you collectively wish, then call them out on a decision?  Is that how you run the county?

ready