Elk Konnected Hand out at County Commissioners meeting on 4/25

[Ross]

Go ahead and prove me wrong Ross!  

My statement that the Elk County Commissioners did an excellent job negotiating the PILOT on the Caney River project stands.

Ditto my friend! You can't prove that  study may not have provided a better out come.
Considering that no one has probably dealt with anything of this magnitude, I think it would most likely been very beneficial. It's sorta like the people doing mineral right leases for $25 acre and today people in the same area are getting $200 plus.

As for the neighborhood revitalization program - Can anyone find any proof, or even mention of, that any of the 69 counties in Kansas that have enacted a neighvorhood revitalization program did a feasibility study of any sort that is available to the public?  I stopped checking after I read the websites associated with twenty said programs and found no results from any studies that may or may not have been done.  I also cannot find any studies done by third-party entities such as the state universities, state agencies, think-tanks, Kansas Inc., etc.

So, I guess that you advocate the our County Commissioners are justified in lying to us because everyone else's County Governments do it?

And do you also adv ocate the the County Commissioners are not accountable to the Citizens of Elk County ?

I suppose then that everything done by rhe present administration of the President of the USofA is justifiable under that same principle?

Well none of it is under my principles!

[Patriot]

I could go on and on, but it will never prove to Ross and his cohorts that the Elk County Commissioners knew what they were doing when they negotiated, in good faith and with excellent results, the best wind farm PILOT agreement at the time in the state of Kansas, and one that more than three years later has still not been topped by any other board of Kansas county commissioners.

I hope your 'cohorts' slight wasn't intended to include moi.  I don't think I've ever made an issue of the amount of the PILOT.  Though I have validated your method of calculating the thing.  I have mentioned the potential conflict of interest involved in negotiations regarding the site selection.  If you have questions, a thorough review of state corporation/partnership/LLC records and trust holdings in the involved areas should make the reasons for my questions clear.

As for the neighborhood revitalization program, read the introduction statement on ours.  Also review the Kansas statutes & state implementation guidelines regarding what the elective body must do with regard to need & feasibility prior to adopting such a plan.  Heck, I still can't see how a new barn or house is a REvitalization of anything.  How can one REvitalize something that isn't there to begin with?

[flintauqua]

I hope your 'cohorts' slight wasn't intended to include moi.  

I actually had written Ross, Patriot and their cohorts, then removed your name because you have actually agreed with most of the facts I have presented about the Caney River wind project, and wind projects in general. 

I should have abbreviated it to just Ross, since it is he that just doesn't seem to get it.

As for the revitalization endeavour.  I'm not saying that there isn't supposed to be a feasability study done.  I'm saying I can't find anything on the websites pertaining to the programs that already exist in various towns and counties accross the state.  And that I cannot find where any third party has done a study on the effectiveness of these programs. 

Maybe these studies exist, maybe an Elk County official or employee has been able to access one or more, maybe not.  I don't know the answer to that, and neither do you, or Ross.

The difference between you and Ross, and myself is that I do not automatically assume that everything that the commissioners and the county employees do is wrong until proven right. 

I guess it's because I grew up around most of these people, worked along side a lot of these people, and remain friends with these people.  Those personal interactions throughout the many years builds a certain type of trust.  And so far, the people that you question repeatedly, as you have the right to do, have not broken that trust.

That is all from me for a while, I have many things to attend to this week and next.

[Ross]

I should have abbreviated it to just Ross, since it is he that just doesn't seem to get it.

I get it politicians should not be questioned by the constituents, because you know them, right?

As for the revitalization endeavour.  I'm not saying that there isn't supposed to be a feasability study done.  I'm saying I can't find anything on the websites pertaining to the programs that already exist in various towns and counties accross the state.  And that I cannot find where any third party has done a study on the effectiveness of these programs. .

I felt your statement posted earlier indicated it's alright to claim a study but that it is not necessary to show the results because no one else does. Here is that post:

As for the neighborhood revitalization program - Can anyone find any proof, or even mention of, that any of the 69 counties in Kansas that have enacted a neighvorhood revitalization program did a feasibility study of any sort that is available to the public?  I stopped checking after I read the websites associated with twenty said programs and found no results from any studies that may or may not have been done.  I also cannot find any studies done by third-party entities such as the state universities, state agencies, think-tanks, Kansas Inc., etc.

Maybe these studies exist, maybe an Elk County official or employee has been able to access one or more, maybe not.  I don't know the answer to that, and neither do you, or Ross.

You said you had facts, I asked for them and you didn't produce any. And provide this distraction.
If there is a study it would be a simple thing for the county to post it on our County's expensive web site, and make it useful.

The difference between you and Ross, and myself is that I do not automatically assume that everything that the commissioners and the county employees do is wrong until proven right. 

I am simply asking questions to which there are apparently no answers. The only answer appears to claim stuff like this that you insinuate.

I guess it's because I grew up around most of these people, worked along side a lot of these people, and remain friends with these people.  Those personal interactions throughout the many years builds a certain type of trust.  And so far, the people that you question repeatedly, as you have the right to do, have not broken that trust.

With the exception of the blurred line between Elk Konnected, LLC and Konnected Kounty Kommissioners, where do their loyalties lie, with the County or with the privately owned organization? 
But as I understand you, just say go with the flow because they are your personal friends, you grew up with them.

I suppose you never question other politicians in the state of federal government?

That is all from me for a while, I have many things to attend to this week and next.

One final note, I am not a part of any group or organzation. I hope that is clear!
I am alone responsible for anything I post on this forum and they are my personal opinions, no one else's.

By-by! I'll be getting busy starting tomorrow myself.

[Patriot]

I actually had written Ross, Patriot and their cohorts, then removed your name because you have actually agreed with most of the facts I have presented about the Caney River wind project, and wind projects in general.  

Thanks.

Maybe these studies exist, maybe an Elk County official or employee has been able to access one or more, maybe not.  I don't know the answer to that, and neither do you, or Ross.

I've asked my commissioner and been told he has no knowledge of any careful study or evaluation of the efficacy of this plan in Elk county.

The difference between you and Ross, and myself is that I do not automatically assume that everything that the commissioners and the county employees do is wrong until proven right.  

I can't speak for Ross, but where I'm concerned, you are in error.  Please note that I usually provide support for any inference of improper actions.  If you doubt that, continue reading...

I guess it's because I grew up around most of these people, worked along side a lot of these people, and remain friends with these people.  Those personal interactions throughout the many years builds a certain type of trust.  And so far, the people that you question repeatedly, as you have the right to do, have not broken that trust.

While I understand your loyalty, my questons are directed at the operation of government.  Not on social affirmation.  I have found that blind trust in any human being can eventually lead to disappointment... if only because of human imperfection. I just posted the following on the 'Property tax relief is coming to Elk County' thread.  Please read it and ask yourself... is there anything to question?...

Two of our county commissioners, Hendricks & Liebau, our economic development director and our county appraiser have been working feverishly to adopt a tax rebate neighborhood revitalization plan for Elk County.  Today's commission meeting, provided the answer to a couple of troubling questions.  Why was the open application start date in the new plan set to January 1, 2012?  Is it because the plan is being developed to serve some special interest?  Commissioner Ritz asked these very questions.  Here is a summary of the answers presented in the public meeting...

The appraiser provided the following:
1.  A former Enterprise Zone development incentive program was cancelled by the state last year.
2.  There was a citizen who, because of delays in construction, failed to qualify for incentives in that program before it closed.
3.  A 'replacement' incentive program (Neighborhood Revitalization Plan) was proposed locally.
4.  The proposed program has yet to be finalized by the county commission or approved by the state attorney general.
5.  Nothing in the plan was designed to provide special treatment to anyone.
6.  The proposed program was drafted & presented by our economic development director & our appraiser and they set the application start date in the new plan back to Jan 1, 2012 specifically so the person mentioned in 2 above could participate.
7.  There may have been other premature applications taken as well.


Read that date again... 1/1/2012.  Commissioner Ritz pointed out that it's darned difficult to apply for a program that hasn't been adopted or approved as required state law.  Ritz observed that the fact the date was admittedly set so the person in 2 above (and perhaps others) could participate & allowed to apply before the program existed and without paying the proposed application fee upon application made it appear the plan was, in fact, being structured to provide some special benefit to one or more persons.  In spite of the facts reported by the appraiser above & Ritz' observations, the appraiser vigorously defended her statement that the program had not been configured to benefit any particular person.

At the urging of Commissioners Hendricks & Liebau, Ritz moved to change the open application period start date to January 1, 2013.  Neither Commissioner Liebau nor Hendricks would second the motion.  The motion failed.  Apparently fair treatment of all our citizens did too.

Is this kind of back door special treatment that the citizens of Elk County deserve or expect?  Wouldn't it be more fair and equitable for the start date to begin AFTER the program has been clearly presented to the public and legally adopted & approved.  Let's hope the public can see the game being played, makes their distaste for such things in Elk County well known, and calls for change.

Just something to chew on.

[Ross]

If it walks like a duck
And quacks like a duck
It must be a duck.

[flintauqua]

If it walks like a duck
And quacks like a duck
It must be a duck.

You quack me up!

Sorry, someone had to do it, might as well be me! 

[Ross]

You quack me up!

Sorry, someone had to do it, might as well be me! 

No, by all means no, don't be sorry, I love it !
I set it up and I wondered if anyone would follow up. Thanks, some humor is helpful.


But did you notice the two Konnected Kounty Kommissioners failed to second Commissioner Ritz's motion to place Jan 1, 2013 for the start date on the proposed Community Revitalization Proposal ?

I wonder just how the Konnected Kounty Kommissioners can justify a start date of Jan 1, 2012 when it has not even been approved and may not even be approved.

Oh, can I be grandfathered in as well? I only go back to the summer of 2005?
I put in a double wide mobile home and two barns, I'd love to be grandfathered in as well, I sure could use some of my tax  money back, too! Oh, I could use a tax rebate. and just think my ten years are about to end in just 3 more years.

To me, it stinks of that "Old Guard" tat [coled, LLC[/color] refered to in one of their letters, maybe, just maybe?
See next question.

Man, I really wonder are the Konnected Kounty Kommissioners perhaps involved with that "Old Guard"?
The reason, I wonder is because I have no idea who were members of the "Old Guard" that Elk Konnected, LLC was refering to.

I wonder if we will read in Konnected Kounty Kommissioners column in the newspaper the following that took place at the meeting?

The appraiser provided the following:
1.  A former Enterprise Zone development incentive program was cancelled by the state last year.
2.  There was a citizen who, because of delays in construction, failed to qualify for incentives in that program before it closed.
3.  A 'replacement' incentive program (Neighborhood Revitalization Plan) was proposed locally.
4.  The proposed program has yet to be finalized by the county commission or approved by the state attorney general.
5.  Nothing in the plan was designed to provide special treatment to anyone.
6.  The proposed program was drafted & presented by our economic development director & our appraiser and they set the application start date in the new plan back to Jan 1, 2012 specifically so the person mentioned in 2 above could participate.
7.  There may have been other premature applications taken as well.

Do you reckon that wll be included in Kommissioner Hendricks column?
I think it will be interesting to find out?
Do you think it will be in the minutes of the meeting?
I can hardly wait to read either one. Anxiety attack. Shame on me.

I'm just a red neck hick with no college papers, so you will just have to forgive me.

But something stinks.

[flintauqua]

Oh, can I be grandfathered in as well? I only go back to the summer of 2005?
I put in a double wide mobile home and two barns, I'd love to be grandfathered in as well, I sure could use some of my tax  money back, too! Oh, I could use a tax rebate. and just think my ten years are about to end in just 3 more years.

Unless something changed at today's commissioner meeting as to the length and percentages of rebate, (which I doubt occurred, otherwise I believe Patriot would have informed us) Elk County's program is for five years, not ten like Meade County's.

This was posted yesterday, perhaps you missed it.



That's not all I have to say about your last post.  That's just all I have to say at the moment.

[Ross]

Unless something changed at today's commissioner meeting as to the length and percentages of rebate, (which I doubt occurred, otherwise I believe Patriot would have informed us) Elk County's program is for five years, not ten like Meade County's.
This was posted yesterday, perhaps you missed it.
That's not all I have to say about your last post.  That's just all I have to say at the moment.

Pcky, picky, picky. That is not the important issue in all this is it ?
1 year, 3 years, 5 years, or 10 years.

Oh no, I recall, I just wasn't thinking about the number of years, the smell was overwhelming.

But if they are going to grandfather someone in, I want in too, and so would most of the county.
5 years or ten years doesn't matter, right and wrong matters.
But hey guess what, that means my 5 years are up, and they could just pay me my rebate in one lump sum and not have to worry about it year after year? I'll gladly wait untill they get the next year windfarm check.
Hell yes, I'm being sarcastic, just as sarcastic as this plan to line other pockets, in my blatant opinion.
Isn't that what all this is about, greed? Not paying ones fair share of taxes by means of a rebate?

The Konnected Kounty Kommissioners in my opinion failed to make things right by failing to second County Commissioner Ritz's motion therefore allowing the motion to die.

In my personal opinion that shows a lack of moral right for the county as a whole?

From what I have seen and heard the whole thing is being set up most likely for and by the Konnected Kounty Kommissioners.

When will the feasability study be performed or will they continue that lie ?

Why don't they show the figures on the proposal that shows the amounts rebateable on $20,000 and $1 million dollar investments.

And let's have full disclosure of who applies for tax rebates from the County Citizens?

Let's also get the County Employees building a comprehensive web site that shows all public information, including the property tax rolls. After all we are paying big bucks for this 21st century computer system and web site. Public information is not secret information.

Even the Federal Government listt on it's web site the names of companys and people that recieve farm subsidies.

Our County officials nor our employees have the right to with hold publiic information from anyone. And that includes anyone they work with under the guise of Economic Development. Names of people do not fall under any form of privacy. Their personal or their business may very well be private. But their names and amounts of financial breaks they may recieve from the county, by them do not.

I personally believe it is time for some real open honest dialog from our county goverment.

Honestly folks your votes in August are very important!
Let's get the vote out for Honesty in our County Government!
You'r vot is extremely important on the local issues!

If you need a ride, I will gadly volunteer my to drive you,
only if you promise not to talk politics on the way to the polls.
How you vote is your personal and private busness.
Not public information.

Lest we forget I am just a:

Narcissistic Gadfly

"Watch Us Grow"