Elk Konnected Hand out at County Commissioners meeting on 4/25

[redcliffsw]

By the way, it looks like the only kind of liberty that you understand is the broad based liberty that you take with other peoples' money.

[flintauqua]

By the way, it looks like the only kind of liberty that you understand is the broad based liberty that you take with other peoples' money.

Yet another non-answer to a specific question.  Wow, I am so surprised!

[Patriot]

So in addition to not being able to recognize your status as a follower (as Ross so clearly observed yesterday), you also fail to see your 'reactionary' retorts on this thread for nearly a year?

In psychology, that behavior is generally observed in people with addictive disorders.  It's called projection and is generally seen with a group of defense mechanisms employed as a complex self defense process.  Another defense mechanism is to apply vague derogatory labels to the more rational people in the addict's social circles.

Perhaps Red has it nailed.... you secretly desire to be a ward of a socialist state in order to benefit from the largess available to the weak who live under a soft tyranny.  Sad, really.

Yes, I suppose, this is another non-answer.  The answers you seek have been presented throughout this thread.

[flintauqua]

Yes, I suppose, this is another non-answer.  The answers you seek have been presented throughout this thread.

Where?

[Patriot]

Where?

As you, and others, have so eloquently answered when asked about the 'truths & facts' that you and the EK supporters supposedly provided on this forum.... go fish.  It's there, so go look it up.

[Patriot]

Speaking of being ambiguous and obtuse, I find it interesting, citizens, that when Commissioner Hendricks was asked by a member of the public at a recent commission meeting about her ideas for the use of our PILOT funds, her answer was non-existent.  Are we supposed to believe that the local negotiator/architect of and signatory to the PILOT agreement in 2008 has no ideas for the use of that money after over 4 years?  I wouldn't bet on it.

Actually, I find the above far more important, revealing & troubling than any such ambiguity by posters on this forum.  How about a little more government/public interaction & transparency.  This isn't about secret, wrapped birthday presents handed out by our government 'parents.'  Or is it?

Let the irrational responses begin.

[flintauqua]

So in addition to not being able to recognize your status as a follower (as Ross so clearly observed yesterday), you also fail to see your 'reactionary' retorts on this thread for nearly a year?

The definition of Moderate that I live by, paraphrased from some two inch think book I read twenty plus years ago:

"A Moderate generally believes every issue needs to be looked at separately, looking at both sides of an issue and then taking into account his own beliefs on the matter, then making a decision. Most feel that being a Moderate keeps one from being blinded by political demagoguery."

I follow those that by their words and deeds have proven to me personally that I can trust them.  

And I trust most, but not quite all, Elk County residents and property owners.

Why?  Because the vast majority of them can and do see through the Reactionary, Ayn Randian, sons of the John Birch Society demagoguery that is what Patriot, Ross, Red, etc try to promote through their posts on this Forum.

[Ross]

Since the question Diane asked has gone unanswered by red and ambiguously anwered with "What liberty?  Let's say any liberty." by patriot, I would like to offer a second opportunity for the Reactionaries on this Forum to explain themselves.

You sir, are the reactionist by making such a statement.
If a response isn't as quick as you like there is no answers.
I sir, will not permit you or any other follower control my liberties or freedoms.
We already have our federal government trying very hard to do just that.
Please read the statements below about national and local governments.

Just exactly which liberties and freedoms have been lost?  Exactly who lost them and exactly who took them away?  
Specific cases please, not more ambiguity.

I repeat again sir, I will not permit followers to control my freedoms and rights through intimidation as explained below.

And so Ross doesn't chastise me for polluting his thread/blog -

Oh, now flint, I would never chastise you for being on this thread.
I infact have and will continue to encourage you to post just as often as you desire.
I very much enjoy your presence and your post's.
This is not my forum and I have repeatedly said so.
I have also thanked the owners in this thread for making this wonderful forum available to all.
So please, please post to your hearts content --- and know that you do not need my permission or request to do so.
Welcome, welcome Flint welcome.

What specific liberties and/or freedoms have been taken away from whom by the Elk County Commissioners, past and present?

In response to your question: Threats are the actions of attempting and sometimes are used as tools to remove ones liberties.

Some go further, please observe:

On the national level most likely due to some civic organization we now have NDAA.

Haven't you heard of the NDAA?

Here are but a few words on the subject.

From Forbes:
The National Defense Authorization Act is the Greatest Threat to Civil Liberties Americans Face

So much for innocent until proven guilty. So much for limited government. What Americans are now facing is quite literally the end of the line. We will either uphold the freedoms baked into our Constitutional Republic, or we will scrap the entire project in the name of security as we wage, endlessly, this futile, costly, and ultimately self-defeating War on Terror.

Over at Wired, Spencer Ackerman gives us the long and short of things:

"There are still changes swirling around the Senate, but this looks like the basic shape of the 2012 National Defense Authorization Act. Someone the government says is "a member of, or part of, al-Qaida or an associated force" can be held in military custody "without trial until the end of the hostilities authorized by the Authorization for Use of Military Force." Those hostilities are currently scheduled to end the Wednesday after never. The move would shut down criminal trials for terror suspects.

But far more dramatically, the detention mandate to use indefinite military detention in terrorism cases isn't limited to foreigners. It's confusing, because two different sections of the bill seem to contradict each other, but in the judgment of the University of Texas' Robert Chesney — a nonpartisan authority on military detention — "U.S. citizens are included in the grant of detention authority."

An amendment that would limit military detentions to people captured overseas failed on Thursday afternoon. The Senate soundly defeated a measure to strip out all the detention provisions on Tuesday.

So despite the Sixth Amendment's guarantee of a right to trial, the Senate bill would let the government lock up any citizen it swears is a terrorist, without the burden of proving its case to an independent judge, and for the lifespan of an amorphous war that conceivably will never end. And because the Senate is using the bill that authorizes funding for the military as its vehicle for this dramatic constitutional claim, it's pretty likely to pass.

A really scary read at http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2011/12/05/the-national-defense-authorization-act-is-the-greatest-threat-to-civil-liberties-americans-face/

On the local level:
We have you the followers that want us to shut up and go away, you followers have made that quite clear.
And I would bet, if you could take away our freedom of speech you would.
And remember it was tried on this very thread.
I was told in this every thread, that every post I make is being printed, to possibly be used in a lawsuit.
In hope that you can control, right?

And we have an organization that controls our very own County Commissioners Board.

One Commissioner made it very clear in an intimidating manner that he will defend his organization and he did it during a County Commissioners Meeting.

And during the same meeting he declared that my posts on this forum are "VILE" , in an attempt to belittle me in a public meeting.

Why, do you think he used his position as an Elk Konnected County Commissioner to take such action in public?

He also insinuated in an ugly fasion that I should volunteer?
Volunteer for what?
He did not say, why didn't he say for what?

I was shocked speechless by his aggressive action.
If I would have behaved in such a fashion the sheriff would have been called.
Guaranteed.

These are clearly attempts to remove my rights through intimidation.
It worked once, but I'm sorry it won't work again with me.

But the Fed does scare me nearly to death.
No wishful thinking on that one, please. LOL

[jarhead]

Quote from Flintauqua:
And I trust most, but not quite all, Elk County residents and property owners.

You've done quite a turn around there Chuck. As I recall when the West Elk bond issue failed a couple years back, you threw a pissy fit and called the folks of Elk county some pretty vile names. Said you were wiping your hands clean of the stupid people that live here. Could I ask why you have changed your mind and now trust most of the citizens? Just asking.

[flintauqua]

Thank you Ross for an actual answer to the prior question.  I agree that the NDAA and several previous acts, including the Patriot Act, contain clauses that violate the Bill of Rights.

I don't agree with your connection between this Federal edict and the actions of the Elk County Commission, but you and I will probably never agree on most of their actions.

I would love to see what else we might agree on.  Here's one to think about.

At what point in time will the Federal Government stop running on Continuing Resolutions and actually pass on Annual Budget, on time.  Is this a violation of our collective rights?  Who's to blame:  The Executive Branch, The Senate, The House, Tea Party Republicans, non-Tea Party Republicans, Democrats, George Soros, the Koch Brothers, you, me, us, no one, everyone?

Look forward to your thoughts.  Goodnight.  This ardent Wildcat has to root for the Jayhawks tonight to have any shot at having a better bracket then my wife, since the WuShocks and Mizzou went down in flames in the first round.