Elk Konnected Hand out at County Commissioners meeting on 4/25

[Ross]

I know of a least one fund raiser too, about three years ago. They did ask for donations also and some people do like to donate to things anonymously so they don't get hounded by other people also looking for donations.This forum, as much as I'm sure some would like it to be, is not the be all and end all of Elk County. There are people who support EK who would not like to be announced on the forum as they don't like the gossip. I'd talk more about this but then I'd be rude and I don't want to be.
I'm still not quite sure about the ''tax payers money" business. If they applied for a start up grant from Kansas and got it, what is the problem? If they didn't get it someone else would have. Perhaps it's nice that is was Elk County's turn.

"I know of a least one fund raiser too, about three years ago."
What exactly do you know about that fund raiser. Share that with us please.

"If they applied for a start up grant from Kansas and got it, what is the problem?" The denial, the continuous denial that they use tax dollars. Openly sayig in the newspaper that they don't us tax payers money.

"Perhaps it's nice that is was Elk County's turn." It wasn't Elk County that got the school grant, see that's how things get mixed up. It was Elk Konnected LLC that got the grant.

I'm still not quite sure about the ''tax payers money" business. What's there not not to be sure of. Read the post directly above this one.And if you still have questions I will try and do my best to provide a proper answer. If I can't I will definitly say so.

And yes I thinks it is a great idea of yours to keep everything civil. Kudos to you.

[Ross]

25.00 a month membership, and there are many members not just 8.

Thank you very much for that information. $25 a month is not a bad deal.

[Ross]

I didn't see birth certificate listed as one of the documents that should be made public.

Wow! Who asked for a birth certificate?
How rude.

[Ross]

  I've been reading all the posts about this and all the different threads....I've been stayin out of it since we no longer live there.

  I have been watchin a very underhanded campaign of insinuation......trying to implant and play on peoples natural tendencies to be suspicious of any change and any dislike of people involved or distrust of government that has kept much from happening or changing since I was a kid there in Severy. Just stirrin turds to see if any float.........be careful the septic dont burp and splash back on you.

  "I have been watchin a very underhanded campaign of insinuation......"
"Campaign of insuations"   Really? What specific insuations? Please be specific?
I'd really like to know the insuations.

"Just stirrin turds to see if any float"
Now that is just Crass with a capital "C".

[thatsMRSc2u]

 Insinuations of a "dark purpose"......... insinuations of improper practices......insinuations of conflict of interest.......insinuations of ulterior motives etc etc etc etc.

as for the stirrin turds....it applies to what you are doing. Dont jump down my neck and call me crass or anything else for callin a spade a spade.

I AINT your huckleberry so move on.

Oh FYI I'm not using some fictious name

Everybody on here knows exactly who lookatmeknow is.........we've known her since we were kids.

When they tell you don't sit with your spouse, don't sit with your neighbor that's just not friendly in my opinion no matter what the excuse they give, nothing comes between me and my wife--nothing. And she feels exactly the same way.

uh instead of a dark purpose maybe they wanted to mix people up so DIFFERENT ideas would be discussed and hammered out instead of ONE idea and some gladhandin........just a thought. Really HIGHLY doubt they were tryin to break  up your marriage....use a little common sense instead of paranoia!

The Ozarks must be simply beautiful all greened up by now. I loved driving through the Ozarks although it has been a long time since I've been there. I'll never forget it but I'll probably never see it again except in pictures. I just have no desire to roam from my little piece of heaven on earth. I've had plenty of roaming in my life.

yes it is and it's a great place to live. as for roamin I roam all the time, I roam up there pretty often. I had my little piece of heaven there too....unFORtunately it was move or starve...so dont tell me how wonderful things are there....if you are on disability and have that check and dont have to drive 100 miles to work every day it is an EXCELLANT place to live.

Oh yeah.....I'm done. Yall have a nice MayDay

[Diane Amberg]

Ross, I know EK had a wine tasting party several years back to raise money for EK to fund some of their projects. I doubt there was anything sinister about it. I can't share details since I'm too far away to go to such things but there are forum people who were involved.They could share details if they want to, not sure why they should have to though. They also asked for donations and equipment for the health center.
  As far as the circle groups in meetings and dividing people up, it's an easy way to do a mixer and have people get to meet new people, so new ideas can be shared and there is less chance for people to be intimidated by spouses and neighbors...no everybody doesn't do that but some do. Some wives expect their husbands to speak for them and visa versa. Some people are very shy and retiring ( like me ) but have really good ideas if they feel safe and free to share them. Other people who have very aggressive personalities and will trample people verbally and sometimes have learn to tone it down as to not scare off the naturally quiet ones. I guess you have never run into that before.It's very commonly done in workshops and conferences here.
     If they choose to have their organization run as a "committee of the whole" with a number of subset committees doing their various projects and reporting their progress back informally at their meetings, what's to be concerned about?  Does there always have to be a formal leader with Roberts Rules in place? Do they really need a formal  charter, constitution and by-laws? I have no doubt they are financially accountable for their money. They have been hard at work on these projects for four years now. What caused you to be so  concerned right now? What was the catalyst? If I'd been one of the people working on the education committee, for example I'd surely be discouraged if someone, after four years, was suddenly so negative.

[Patriot]

Ross, I know EK had a wine tasting party several years back to raise money for EK to fund some of their projects. I doubt there was anything sinister about it. I can't share details since I'm too far away to go to such things but there are forum people who were involved.They could share details if they want to, not sure why they should have to though. They also asked for donations and equipment for the health center.
  As far as the circle groups in meetings and dividing people up, it's an easy way to do a mixer and have people get to meet new people, so new ideas can be shared and there is less chance for people to be intimidated by spouses and neighbors...no everybody doesn't do that but some do. Some wives expect their husbands to speak for them and visa versa. Some people are very shy and retiring ( like me ) but have really good ideas if they feel safe and free to share them. Other people who have very aggressive personalities and will trample people verbally and sometimes have learn to tone it down as to not scare off the naturally quiet ones. I guess you have never run into that before.It's very commonly done in workshops and conferences here.
     If they choose to have their organization run as a "committee of the whole" with a number of subset committees doing their various projects and reporting their progress back informally at their meetings, what's to be concerned about?  Does there always have to be a formal leader with Roberts Rules in place? Do they really need a formal  charter, constitution and by-laws? I have no doubt they are financially accountable for their money. They have been hard at work on these projects for four years now. What caused you to be so  concerned right now? What was the catalyst? If I'd been one of the people working on the education committee, for example I'd surely be discouraged if someone, after four years, was suddenly so negative.

Diane, I think one of the concerns is the fact that, behind the informal public group there is, in reality, a formal company, with a charter and a select (as in legally admitted 'membership) group who operate with a certain impunity and lack of transparency.  That group (the LLC) is not accountable to the community at large, yet are undertaking to guide (facilitate) community meetings and in some cases solicit monies from taxpayer (in the form of grant and direct local subsidy) sources and act to provide input to a government decision making body.  While much can be known about the 'public' face of this private group, almost nothing can be known about the private face.  Financial accountability, beyond the petty cash level that the LLC chooses to reveal, is non-existent.  Of the charter under which the LLC was created, only the date of formation and the name/address of the resident agent are readily discoverable. Of the outside affiliations the LLC has chosen to engage, virtually nothing is known in any detail.  The fact is that public knowledge of the LLC is virtually nonexistent, beyond anything the LLC chooses to disclose, and the public impression of that group is created largely by actions or advertising the LLC decides to initiate.  One thing the public can know, is that a a local elected official has substantial involvement (as in potential management/official staff position) with both the local LLC and the outside community organizing company discussed in the next paragraph.  Not really very transparent in the eyes of an objective observer.

The local private group has seen fit to retain and pay for outside community organization services.  It was the outside source that told some people, in no uncertain terms, that they could not participate in the most recently facilitated 'community discussion' unless they chose to separate themselves from spouses and close friends and sit in circles of people they did not know.  If those conditions were imposed by government, there would be a violation of the constitutional right of free assembly.  When done in the setting at hand, it was highly offensive and reeked of subterfuge and manipulation.  Of course, 'their meeting/their rules' surely apply, the appearance was something far short of an 'open public' forum.  Before someone disputes the claims of fact of this paragraph, know that Ross, myself and at least five others were witnesses to what is claimed.

Until a complaint emerged at a commission meeting, the local LLC was given unpaid space (an official link and page) on an official government website.  Again, a fact witnessed by a room full of people.  Who missed the ethical boat on that one?  If that had been a church, the ACLU would have given birth to a cow with threats of litigation and injunction.  Yet, it's no big deal only because of the public image that the company has been able to create among a rather insulated population with a few minor community improvements (a small exercise center, kids ball game and camping sponsorships, etc.).  With local prices being necessarily higher than other communities, the job market being virtually nonexistent, the population in decline, infrastructure being substandard in many cases, mill levy's & per capita property taxes being among the highest in the state, the prospect for real job growth through business development being beyond bleak, Ross's lollipop analogy when referring to Elk Konnected's community contributions seems somehow very generous.  While hope springs eternal, sometimes the facts remain unchanged.

Even the county public employee who is charged with guiding community development is believed to have been officially tasked with maintaining a Facebook page for the private LLC.  Wouldn't that be considered ethically questionable and a potential misappropriation of taxpayer monies (in terms of the public salary involved)?

You see people on this forum (myself included) complain about corporate welfare/abuse, federal and state government overreaching/abuse of power, and a myriad of other issues based on minuscule evidence (general news or editorial input from various unverifiable and possibly biased sources).  Here, we have a local and intimate operation at work to drive public opinion (and very possibly local tax monies) the core of which is virtually unseen & unknown by the public at large.  But let a few folks ask what should be very legitimate questions and they are openly ignored, minimized, demonized or told to join the parade in order to get the answers needed to determine if joining the parade is a prudent personal choice.  Personally, I don't want to jump in the shower all at once to find out if the water is too hot.  I would rather ask questions and get open honest answers before I jump in with my time, energy and money.  If being prudent is a crime, then get the hangin' rope.

Now, before you or anyone else asks 'what about the windfarm an how the LLC has helped promote it', let's consider an irrefutable fact or two.  Foremost is the reality that at the core of the Elk Konnected/Public Square promotion of the wind project are:

   1)  People whose close family and/or family enterprises some of whom will be receiving potentially millions of dollars in personal benefits via lease payments on land they own.  In itself, that's great.  But when married to a private group bent on driving public opinion on the matter and to related persons who hold elected office, the picture is not so clear.

   2)  People in 1 above who are, and have very likely been, involved in the official courting of and negotiating for the entire project for years with both the project developer & federal and state agencies.  This even further muddies the picture for an astute observer.

   3)  People who have or stand to receive, in part, financial reward for their efforts in enhancing the local LLC and its' public image.

If not for a few 'evil skeptics' who believe in the public having ALL the facts that reflect on the true nature of government/private partnerships/relationships and other dealings that might well affect their futures, lives and choices in leadership, these issues might never have brought forward for public scrutiny.  Now, I ask you, who is it that really have the best interests of the citizens of Elk County at heart? 

Moral to an old story about a stubborn bird who wanted something different:  All those who put you in the s^*t aren't necessarily your enemies, and all those who seem to get you out, aren't necessarily your friends.

[Ross]

Ross, I know EK had a wine tasting party several years back to raise money for EK to fund some of their projects. I doubt there was anything sinister about it. I can't share details since I'm too far away to go to such things but there are forum people who were involved.They could share details if they want to, not sure why they should have to though. They also asked for donations and equipment for the health center.
  As far as the circle groups in meetings and dividing people up, it's an easy way to do a mixer and have people get to meet new people, so new ideas can be shared and there is less chance for people to be intimidated by spouses and neighbors...no everybody doesn't do that but some do. Some wives expect their husbands to speak for them and visa versa. Some people are very shy and retiring ( like me ) but have really good ideas if they feel safe and free to share them. Other people who have very aggressive personalities and will trample people verbally and sometimes have learn to tone it down as to not scare off the naturally quiet ones. I guess you have never run into that before.It's very commonly done in workshops and conferences here.
     If they choose to have their organization run as a "committee of the whole" with a number of subset committees doing their various projects and reporting their progress back informally at their meetings, what's to be concerned about?  Does there always have to be a formal leader with Roberts Rules in place? Do they really need a formal  charter, constitution and by-laws? I have no doubt they are financially accountable for their money. They have been hard at work on these projects for four years now. What caused you to be so  concerned right now? What was the catalyst? If I'd been one of the people working on the education committee, for example I'd surely be discouraged if someone, after four years, was suddenly so negative.

Wow, that's right someone did have a wine tasting party. I had completely forgot about that. I didn't pay any attention to that, because I don't drink. If I have a drink it's because I have a cold or a touch of the flu. I only use alcohol for medicinal purposes. But that a great way to raise funds.

As far as they run their community conversations I don't really care. I just won't have anyone or any business coming between my wife and myself no matter the circumstances and my wife feels the same way. We don't take our marriage lightly. We have a great relationship and plan to keep it that way.  One time we had a friend try to come between us. I repeat had a friend. We had the same happen with a relative try to come between us, they are still a relative but not welcome around us. We feel that strongly about our marriage. So, I won't be attending their circus of control.

Your remark, "Other people who have very aggressive personalities and will trample people verbally and sometimes have learn to tone it down as to not scare off the naturally quiet ones. I guess you have never run into that before."  May be true but the opposite is true as well, they can just choose to ignore what someone has to say.

The next remark, "I have no doubt they are financially accountable for their money." Although I have never thought about that what do you base that statement on?

Another remark you make, "Do they really need a formal  charter, constitution and by-laws?" I have never suggest that they do. I simply asked if they do. Asking a question does not imply that it is a necessity.

Why, am I interested now that's a fair question and deserves a fair answer. When they attack a community with in the county, perhaps attack is the wrong word, let's use Liz's word bash a community after saying they want to pull all the communities together, that's just not right. I even brought that to the attention of Liz and she said and I quote, "We didn't mean to bash Elk Falls." And yet they haven't removed the offending remarks.

Now back to the statement of "pulling all the communities together"  in their list of suggestions say the following:

Centrally located county fairgrounds with 1 fair - 1 (Big Idea's)Unified Gov't (w/in the county) to save money and become more unified (do away with city gov't, councils­
(cont.) all centrally located-one managing body) (Big Ideas's)

Centrally located county fairgrounds with 1 fair - 1 (Big Idea's)

Notice those are BIG IDEA'S Take away the individual community identities and control of their communities. Not a good idea, not at all. Take away their right under the constitution to govern themselves
Take away Longton's Free Fair for what reason to benefit Howard. The Longton Free Fair is Longton's business not Elk County or Elk Konnected LLC. Unless of course they take away their right under the constitution as citizens to freely assemble. Their fair is a lot of fun to go to.  

Centrally located doesn't meant we draw an "X" through the middle of the county and locate everything there. Centrally Located I am sure would mean Howard. It appears to me what people have been telling me since I have moved here is true. I won't mention names,  they need to come forward on their own. But what I have been told is everything is for Howard.

Howard claims our School West Elk as their school.
Elk Konnected LLC is located in Howard.
The Elk Konnected Fitness Center is in Howard.
It appears the Elk Konnected LLC is owned by someone in Howard.
Do I need to repeat Howard.
When the school ran the school referendum 2/3's of the county voted against it
whole 2/3's of Howard voted for it.
I think part of why it got voted down is because Howard wanted to build a community storm shelter into it.
Why can't they build their own storm shelter instead having most of the county pay for it for them.
Other reason's may have been the overall cost and we were being told the school budget was facing major cuts by the state.
You know I think they could have repaired the roof of the school in Moline for a lot less than they paid for the portable buildings.
Part of the roof was still under warranty.

So yes, I believe everyone should be interested in who is handing out the lollipops and keeping the goodies. Who owns Elk Konnected LLC, not so much to ask considering they want to influence our County Government's Elected Officials, and to shut down community organizations, IE their city governments and move control to Howard.

I enjoy visiting with you I hope you are having a great day. I am, I'm geeting a little bit of rain which is sorely needed. I just don't think it will be enoug unless this sprinkle last all night. I can hope but the odds are poor.

[Diane Amberg]

I figured if there was a financial problem with EK it would have been found out long before this. So, basically the wind farm and something that was said to /or about Elk Falls people is where the problem is mostly? I just have a hard time getting my head around this because there are so few of you. I've got more people on my side of Newark here than you have in your whole county!  That makes each of you and each of your opinions more valuable, but at the same time you can't have 2882 different ways of doing things and accomplish anything, plus the little towns are so spread out.  I'd hate to see all the hard work evaporate. Do any of you have any ideas on compromise here?

[flintauqua]

Before someone disputes the claims of fact of this paragraph, know that Ross, myself and at least five others were witnesses to what is claimed.

So, you are one of the 250 or so people that were at the Community Conversation.  Thanks for narrowing your real identity down a little bit there.  Must be nice to banty about claims of lack of transparency and conflicts of interest when you will not even acknowledge who you are.