Elk Konnected Hand out at County Commissioners meeting on 4/25

[Ross]

I'm not talking about the Perkins building.

Why, is the Perkins building off limits?

Do you know for a fact that it is eligible for the program?  

If you are not talking about the Perkins building, why ask about it's eligibility?
But just the same.
Aren't they still back dating the program to January 1, 2012?
Wasn't the building, built this year?

There are other applications for the program too. 

Which brings us to the question of WHY?
Why is the County accepting applications for a program that has not even made it to it's first public hearing?
Wouldn't it be the proper and ethical thing to wait until the program comes into existance?
But where do we find ethics in our Konnected Kounty Kommissioners?

The work kickback  infers "Illegal" or "Fraudulent" The Neighborhood Revitalization Program is not illegal or fraudulent.  It's not a kickback.  

You are free to look at it as you wish, however, the term "kickback" may have a negative connotation to most, but it can also refer to transactions that are perfectly legal as well. Many words in the english language have many meanings. To me it is still a kickback. The taxing office, will kickback some portion of the money paid into the county coffer to the owner of the property. Simple and honestly put.

[Diane Amberg]

Ross, you haven't said how you think "fair share" should be calculated. Do you think all should pay the same tax? A flat tax or a sliding scale? A per capita "head tax" or just property owners?
   By the way, corporate raiders and truly wealthy big businesses, as in corporate America, do use other people's money. Small business people may not...It's a different America.
   What you call ethics is just doing good business to some. As far as "it's the rich who provide the jobs"...not so much any more.That has changed. Big business has figured out how to get more out of their employees for less. Fewer people are doing the same work that more did before.
That's how some failing big businesses are "saved." Someone comes in, fires everyone, but they are free to reapply for their old jobs at a much lower rate, longer hours, and few if any benefits. That's great for the bottom line, but the few at the top are still getting huge salaries, benefits and options, such as the use of the company condo in Florida and the company yacht and enormous separation and retirement packages.... That golden parachute. They protect each other.
   By the way ,what is wrong with pre accepting applications and then holding them until the program is official? That way one would have some idea how many people are interested. It wouldn't necessarily give the pre applications an advantage, if none were considered until a closing date. Or perhaps I don't understand the program.

[Ross]

Ross, you haven't said how you think "fair share" should be calculated. Do you think all should pay the same tax? A flat tax or a sliding scale? A per capita "head tax" or just property owners?

I'm sorry to have to say this but. This whole post of yours reeks of arrogant ignorance or that you perhaps believe most of the citizens of Elk County are ignorant. Are these the type of ethics you use while working with children. I hope and pray it isn't so.

The local tax system is set up properly to tax each person appropriatly for property tax. I don't believe the taxing system was set up to tax most fairly and not others as an Economic Development program for the rest. Ethically speaking fair is fair, not some twisted thinking as put forth in this post of yours.  Please give this some thought. Because wrong is being done every where else does not make it right.

  By the way, corporate raiders and truly wealthy big businesses, as in corporate America, do use other people's money. Small business people may not...It's a different America.

And if they are doing it in this fashion with a lack of ethics and conviction which I'm certain they are. Then aren't they the downfall of a great nation?  

  What you call ethics is just doing good business to some. As far as "it's the rich who provide the jobs"...not so much any more.That has changed. Big business has figured out how to get more out of their employees for less. Fewer people are doing the same work that more did before.

Oh yes Diane they have. They also fire or lay off people with 28 years on the job so the worker doesn't get a retirement check. Real ethics I suppose in your books. And yes they have reduced the American work force to below middle class incomes, leaving mahy homeless and on food stamps. Is this the ethics that made America Great. I don't think so.

That's how some failing big businesses are "saved." Someone comes in, fires everyone, but they are free to reapply for their old jobs at a much lower rate, longer hours, and few if any benefits. That's great for the bottom line, but the few at the top are still getting huge salaries, benefits and options, such as the use of the company condo in Florida and the company yacht and enormous separation and retirement packages.... That golden parachute. They protect each other.

Diane again it doesn't have to be a failing business, it is done out of a lack of ethics and greed and to reduce the working man to poverty levels. I worked for an oil company that was very prosperous and they had middle management screw over the lower management and the work force. Yes, it happened. But the the next out come was middle management got upset when upper management started screwing them over. I was fortunate enough not to be hurt by it because I had left for greener pastures. The final outcome was the company was taken over by a foreign company due to the internal dirty work. That lack of ethics was really not good for America now was it?

  By the way ,what is wrong with pre accepting applications and then holding them until the program is official?

Ethics plain and simple. Something you don't appear to have much care for.

That way one would have some idea how many people are interested.

I am sure you have heard of the term "Feasability Study" and again "Ethics"

It wouldn't necessarily give the pre applications an advantage,

It wouldn't necessarily not give the pre applications an advantage, or why have them?

if none were considered until a closing date. Or perhaps I don't understand the program.

They are already considered by virtue of accepting the applications. They even rolled a persons application over into this plan, from a different government plan, without his personal consent. How's that for ethics?

I would sure feel better about our county government if at least one Konnected Kounty Kommissioner were voted out of office. Which, I believe would restore ethics and values to the county government.

You can not, in any way convince me, that having two commissioners konnected to a private organization that came forth with the list starting on page one of this thread, are unbiased. But, I sure would like to see you try to convince me otherwise, it would make interesting reading.

Thanks for this very interesting post of yours.

[proelkco]

The list from page one of this topic came from Elk County residents not from the Elk County Commissioners or Elk Konnected

[Ross]

The list from page one of this topic came from Elk County residents not from the Elk County Commissioners or Elk Konnected

You may believe that if you so desire.

The list was composed by Elk konnected, LLC and provided to two Konnected Kounty Kommissioners and one independent free thinking County Commissioner.

Not one Elk County Citizens name was attached to any suggestion, not one?

Therefore, the ownership belongs to Elk Konnected, LLC in my humble opinion.

And I'm pleasantly pleased to see that this bothers you?

Please see http://www.freedomadvocates.org/images/pdf/how%20to%20handle%20predetermined%20consensus%20meetings.pdf  for an education in control and manipulation.

[srkruzich]

   By the way, corporate raiders and truly wealthy big businesses, as in corporate America, do use other people's money. Small business people may not...It's a different America.

In my business enterprises classes i took eons ago, we were taught to use OPM.  But OPM did not include using taxdollars. OPM is money that is given permission by the owner to use for a specified purpose.  Not a piggy bank that once empty all one has to do is send out the armed agents to sieze money from those that earn it.

What you call ethics is just doing good business to some. [/.quote]
Piss poor ethics.

As far as "it's the rich who provide the jobs"...not so much any more.That has changed. Big business has figured out how to get more out of their employees for less. Fewer people are doing the same work that more did before.

SOoo why is this a problem?  IF you had to rely on antiquated methods of production, there would be nothing available except to the very rich.   Production has always been the issue in any business. You want more of it.  And yeah thats the nature of business. Now if employees aren't getting enough out of their labor then they did a piss poor negotiation before they became employed.  That too is the nature of the business.  Don't go into a job wanting 60 dollars an hour and settling for min wage as well as going into mcdonalds expecting 60 dollars an hour.  You have to earn the 60 dollars an hour by being prepared .

That's how some failing big businesses are "saved." Someone comes in, fires everyone, but they are free to reapply for their old jobs at a much lower rate, longer hours, and few if any benefits. That's great for the bottom line, but the few at the top are still getting huge salaries, benefits and options, such as the use of the company condo in Florida and the company yacht and enormous separation and retirement packages.... That golden parachute. They protect each other.

As i said before the ones at the top are at the top for a reason. They are smarter than the ones at the bottom.

By the way ,what is wrong with pre accepting applications and then holding them until the program is official? That way one would have some idea how many people are interested. It wouldn't necessarily give the pre applications an advantage, if none were considered until a closing date. Or perhaps I don't understand the program.

Its unethical. Its like announcing a sale at (your favorite store) and then letting special priveledged people in to buy before the crowds get in.  Its also used as a method to hide facts about those who are getting the kickbacks

[Diane Amberg]

Ross, I'm not trying to convince you of anything, nor should you ever assume I always agree with what I write about.
That was an ugly and unnecessary comment about my personal ethics.  Have you developed a colsstone heart too?You neve used to write so mean.
 My post shows arrogant ignorance? Prove it! Prove there is anything arrogant on my part or any assumption of ignorance on the part of even one Elk County resident, other than yourself. What happened to talking about ideas instead of people?
 You never did explain what I wanted to know, so I'll assume you are ignorant of how the taxes are assessed, and are trying to deflect back onto me. In some places residents pay a head tax in lieu of a property tax for people who rent and don't own property. In others, only the owner of record pays a tax and renters pay nothing. Some would say that is not fair as those people pay nothing for the county services they receive. In other cases the equivalent is in the rent they pay to the landlord. There are many systems. I was interested in yours, so instead I get a lecture on my ethics.  Nice job.
  Control and manipulation? I saw you were listed in the bibliography.  
   Steve, I'm not sure how what you wrote has to do with what I wrote. Example.... Remember years ago when suddenly big apartment buildings suddenly went condo? The people  who had money to put on the street made big bucks..with other people's investment money. Some were buildings in rough areas of cities that were beginning to turn around. Brought up to HUD standards there was money to be made by people who knew how to do it. Then the smart ones started foundations and took incomes from running them, and put other things in trusts, again taking an income and paying very favorable taxes. All very legal. I know, boring.

[Patriot]

By the way ,what is wrong with pre accepting applications and then holding them until the program is official? That way one would have some idea how many people are interested. It wouldn't necessarily give the pre applications an advantage, if none were considered until a closing date. Or perhaps I don't understand the program.

How can there be an application for a non-existent program.  And absent the appropriate program (including the qualifications & requirements to apply) for what, exactly would one be applying?  'Pre-application' and waiting lists aren't codified in the state statute which authorizes these programs... to allow 'pre-application' would be a classic cart before the horse scenario.  And, IMHO, Ross is right... circumventing the statute and implementing policy absent proper form & due process reeks of impropriety & would be less than honorable - at the very least.

[redcliffsw]

How are we gonna keep the 2nd Amendment intact if we will not even stand against stuff like "re-vitalization"?

Comrade Obama will be proud of your County Commission if they enact revitalization - and he'll be proud of those
who supported such another government program.

[Ross]

Ross, I'm not trying to convince you of anything, nor should you ever assume I always agree with what I write about.

Now I find that statement just weird. If you don't believe and agree with what you write, why write it. I believe in morale, honesty, integrity and ethics and any other terms that imply these values. I don't believe in theft, burglary, sneakyness and word twisting and I say I don't believe in them to make it clear what I believe. I don't believe in "Beggar-Thy-Neighbor" programs or Welfare for Corporations or the wasteful stimulation programs. But standby for QE-3 and a greatly compromised dollar in your wallet.

That was an ugly and unnecessary comment about my personal ethics.  Have you developed a colsstone heart too?You neve used to write so mean.

You are right Diane, I have often gone out of my way to be kind to you, It is just this time I felt you pushed the envelope and in this post you even said, "nor should you ever assume I always agree with what I write about."

My post shows arrogant ignorance? Prove it! Prove there is anything arrogant on my part or any assumption of ignorance on the part of even one Elk County resident, other than yourself. What happened to talking about ideas instead of people?

I think you answered about arrogant ignorance by saying, "nor should you ever assume I always agree with what I write about."
However, Diane I am sure there are some things in Elk County that I may be ignorant of and if I knew what they were I'd gladly share it. I don't know, what I don't know; now you know.

This thread is about Elk County, Kansas and our minor problems not Elk County, PA where I don't know anything about their problems.

 You never did explain what I wanted to know, so I'll assume you are ignorant of how the taxes are assessed, and are trying to deflect back onto me. In some places residents pay a head tax in lieu of a property tax for people who rent and don't own property. In others, only the owner of record pays a tax and renters pay nothing. Some would say that is not fair as those people pay nothing for the county services they receive. In other cases the equivalent is in the rent they pay to the landlord. There are many systems. I was interested in yours, so instead I get a lecture on my ethics.  Nice job.

I feel, I explained myself quite clearly about our property tax. And I also explained fair is fair.  I also explained that the people that take advantage of the rest of us taxpayers by not paying their fair share via a kickback called a rebate will be public information. This will lead to a boycott of their business by me and my friends. Simple, yes? They are in business to make a profit from my shopping at their place of business but if they want to make more money via this welfare  program then they lose my business and my friends business. Isn't that a great economic development program?

Control and manipulation? I saw you were listed in the bibliography.  

Ross, I'm not trying to convince you of anything, nor should you ever assume I always agree with what I write about.

Now I find that statement just weird. If you don't believe and agree with what you write, why write it. I believe in morale, honesty, integrity and ethics and any other terms that imply these values. I don't believe in theft, burglary, sneakyness and word twisting and I say I don't believe in them to make it clear what I believe. I don't believe in "Beggar-Thy-Neighbor" programs or Welfare for Corporations or the wasteful stimulation programs. But standby for QE-3 and a greatly compromised dollar in your wallet.

That was an ugly and unnecessary comment about my personal ethics.  Have you developed a colsstone heart too?You neve used to write so mean.

You are right Diane, I have often gone out of my way to be kind to you, It is just this time I felt you pushed the envelope and in this post you even said, "nor should you ever assume I always agree with what I write about."

My post shows arrogant ignorance? Prove it! Prove there is anything arrogant on my part or any assumption of ignorance on the part of even one Elk County resident, other than yourself. What happened to talking about ideas instead of people?

I think you answered about arrogant ignorance by saying, "nor should you ever assume I always agree with what I write about."
However, Diane I am sure there are some things in Elk County that I may be ignorant of and if I knew what they were I'd gladly share it. I don't know, what I don't know; now you know.

This thread is about Elk County, Kansas and our minor problems not Elk County, PA where I don't know anything about their problems.

 You never did explain what I wanted to know, so I'll assume you are ignorant of how the taxes are assessed, and are trying to deflect back onto me. In some places residents pay a head tax in lieu of a property tax for people who rent and don't own property. In others, only the owner of record pays a tax and renters pay nothing. Some would say that is not fair as those people pay nothing for the county services they receive. In other cases the equivalent is in the rent they pay to the landlord. There are many systems. I was interested in yours, so instead I get a lecture on my ethics.  Nice job.

I feel, I explained myself quite clearly about our property tax. And I also explained fair is fair.  I also explained that the people that take advantage of the rest of us taxpayers by not paying their fair share via a kickback called a rebate will be public information. This will lead to a boycott of their business by me and my friends. Simple, yes? They are in business to make a profit from my shopping at their place of business but if they want to make more money via this welfare  program then they lose my business and my friends business. Isn't that a great economic development program?

Control and manipulation? I saw you were listed in the bibliography.  

I agree with you wholeheartedly Diane. Perhaps my name is there
If It is concerning integrity, honesty, openness, ethics and morales in government. I'd prefer the rest of the country adhered to these characteristics as well
So, thank you.

Now back to the Elk Konnected Kounty Kommissioners, Okay!
It doesn't only appear we have two Konnected Kounty Kommissioners that always vote to give the privately owned company Elk Konnected, LLC whatever they ask for, they also seemed to be running Elk Konnected, LLC for County Commissioner at the, "Meet and Greet the Candidates". After introducing themselves and their main qualification appearing to have been  born and raised here they spoke about Elk connected, LLC several times. I was believing Elk connected, LLC was running for office more then the candidates. Did you ever hear  Konnected Kounty Kommissioner Liebau vote against
Konnected Kounty Kommissioner Hendricks or vice versa. No, I doubt it! Why? Because then the Konnected Kounty Kommissioners would not have the controlling votes,  now would they?

But wait a minute; we do have another actual County Commissioner, a non-Konnected, free thinker that appears to have the best interest of the whole county in mind. Amazing isn't it. I was very skeptical the first few times I meet Mr. Ritz, now mind you we are not buddies or close friends but after several visits and watching him at the County Commissioners meetings he has earned my respect. He has all the qualities mentioned throughout this post.  I feel this great little county needs more like him on the County Commissioners panel. Therefore I will be doing a write-in and I hope many others feel the same way and do the same thing.

Unless they want to continue with Konnected Kounty Kommissioners.