Elk Konnected Hand out at County Commissioners meeting on 4/25

[Patriot]

If I'm wrong then I apologize. I didn't mean to stir the pot.

Diane, no need to apologize.  Your posts in this thread haven't stirred anything.  It's we radicalized right wing extremists with nefarious intent (sarcastic pun intended) who are seen to be stirring the pot by those who either lack the legal understanding of or will avoid answering valid questions about the relationship between government and a privately run concern. 

[Lookatmeknow!!]

Diane, no need to apologize.  Your posts in this thread haven't stirred anything.  It's we radicalized right wing extremists with nefarious intent (sarcastic pun intended) who are seen to be stirring the pot by those who either lack the legal understanding of or will avoid answering valid questions about the relationship between government and a privately run concern. 

It's not that you are stirring the pot, you are only seeing what you want to see. Yes, I see that you don't think that one person that is an elected official should be part of Elk Konnect. I get that, but I really don't think that Elk Konnect is a privately run. Yes, you pointed out that LLC means privately run. I think that is just for the title, could be wrong. I really don't know that much about the legal aspects of it. Is that what you want to know? Do you know that the county has a parks and recreation fund? If the county feels the need to use the parks and recreation fund for a donation it is legal, I've read the commissioners minutes in the paper and they have donated to numerous things in the surrounding counties.

[Patriot]

...Also got to point out something about grants or schoolorships,... they are money that...the government give away...

Good lord, citizen!  Who's money is the government 'giving' away?  

...Ross, I see you have questions, and I have also seen many of your questions answered. I guess you don't see them being answered...

Factual answers to specific questions and simple oratory based on hearsay or isolated evidence are two different things, don't you think?

..I am hoping that you could see my point in why I feel the organization is good. They really do want what is best for all the communities that are involved. I don't see any hidden agendas in what they want or are doing...

Your choice to support or not support, whether based on either feelings or fact, is a unique one to which you and everyone else are fully entitled.  That's something on which I hope everyone here would surely agree.

'They really do want what is best' is a generalized observation.  One on which others may disagree.  Some may think more facts are needed in order to evaluate objectively the intents of all involved.

You may not see hidden agendas, and there may not be any.  Absent sufficient details it's hard to be sure.  After all, Bernie Madoff's clients saw no hidden agendas either... up to the point where they lost over 50  billion dollars of their money.

[Patriot]

It's not that you are stirring the pot, you are only seeing what you want to see. Yes, I see that you don't think that one person that is an elected official should be part of Elk Konnect. I get that, but I really don't think that Elk Konnect is a privately run. Yes, you pointed out that LLC means privately run. I think that is just for the title, could be wrong. I really don't know that much about the legal aspects of it. Is that what you want to know? Do you know that the county has a parks and recreation fund? If the county feels the need to use the parks and recreation fund for a donation it is legal, I've read the commissioners minutes in the paper and they have donated to numerous things in the surrounding counties.

Lookatmeknow!!, I'm concerned that you are a bit naive in detailed matters of business and law.  I have no doubt that you are sincere and mean well, but the technical complexities of this issue are critical.  Please remember that America was designed and should operate on the basis of laws and not the feelings or beliefs of any one individual or any group.  Not that feelings and beliefs are unimportant, but following the legal aspects is what provides equity for everyone in the end.  At this point, we don't have enough facts to determine the lawful condition of all the matters in this thread.  Hence the attempts to get all the facts.  The devil, as it's said, is usually in the details.

[Wilma]

What I am understanding about this is that EK is not a government entity and is not supported by tax money.  It's membership is open to anyone who wishes to be a member.  If an elected official wishes to be a member of a community group, such as the Chamber of Commerce, the PTA, Boy Scouts, what's the beef?  If, in the course of a meeting of one of these groups that the elected official also belongs to, that group needs some money and decides to ask the county for it, what's the beef?  Just recently the summer baseball program at Longton asked the county for some money.  They got it.  Probably the summer baseball program in Howard has or will be doing the same thing.  I cannot see where being an elected official precludes that person from being a member of all the other organizations in the county if they want to be.  If that official happens to be on the board that is being asked for money, that official has the right to vote yea or nay.  They don't have to vote yea just because they belong to the organization.

I do not see a conflict of interest in one of our commissioners being a member of EK also and being an active member.  If it weren't for active members, nothing would get done.  

Just to refresh my memroy, what do you think the facts are?

Yes, the government gives away tax money.  Have you not heard of Pell grants--loans for college, many of which never get paid back?

What does Bernie Madoff's scam have to do with this topic?  He knew exactly what he was doing.  He wasn't trying to help anyone but himself.

[Patriot]

If that official happens to be on the board that is being asked for money, that official has the right to vote yea or nay.  They don't have to vote yea just because they belong to the organization.

To avoid conflict legally they would be required to recuse themselves from any such vote.

I do not see a conflict of interest in one of our commissioners being a member of EK also and being an active member.

And, I don't think there would be any conflict if the official were to avoid any use of official position to advance the agenda of EK in any way, recused themselves from any vote involving the private group and received no improper personal gain from acts or votes that the official made on any issue coming before the board .

Just to refresh my memroy, what do you think the facts are?

<sigh>  Your question highlights the entire issue here.  The lack of facts and transparency regarding the true internal structure and workings of the LLC obscure the ability to make a reasonable determination regarding potential conflicts.  At its' core, the LLC, absent discovery in a lawsuit, is insulated from public view.  Since they are so closely entangled with government in some areas, the lack of those details makes a fair judgment regarding conflict rather difficult.  Though the desires of citizens wanting to fully understand the relationships between the two entities is more than fair under our system of government.  What I may think, or even feel, is irrelevant at this point. What the true facts turn out to be is the important thing.

Yes, the government gives away tax money.  Have you not heard of Pell grants--loans for college, many of which never get paid back?

And since that money is taken from taxpayers under penalty of imprisonment, doesn't the use of and potential squandering of that money concern you?

What does Bernie Madoff's scam have to do with this topic?  He knew exactly what he was doing.  He wasn't trying to help anyone but himself.

It was relevant in the context in which it was used.  That was as an example that hidden agendas are important because those agendas can cause unsuspecting (and/or blindly trusting) people to be greatly harmed.  Those with hidden agendas usually know exactly what they are doing, that's why the agendas are hidden in the first place.  They want to operate with impunity, and they don't really care who ultimately gets hurt as long as they and theirs get their goodies.  That can apply to Madoff or even the local dog catcher.

[Lookatmeknow!!]

I want you to know, I really don't like government in general. They are involved at every level of our lives though. That is something we all have to get used to. We may not like it, we have the right to voice our opinions on it, and others can voice their opinions on it. As for scholorships and grants, not all of them are from the government. When I graduated high school, I received scholorships from different organizations. These different organizations have the right to say how the money is spent and what the requirements are. I know that other individuals are members of the city council and have businesses. They have just not voted on the different things that pertain to their business. I have read that in the paper. How do we know that the commissioners are using Ek for the benefit of themselves or using the government? Yes, they were on the counties web page. Now they are not. Point taken care of in my eyes.

Have you personally called these individuals and ask these questions? Ross says that is what a forum is for. I beg the differ. I think that if you really want the facts call that person and get them. I sure would feel better if someone wants to know something from me or about my business that they call me, and not go behind my back and say things that they heard. Same is with this issue. Is that wrong to do that?? I don't think they would mind, I am not 100% sure on that, but I do know that I have called school board members or teachers at home about issues and they would rather me get the facts from them. Just a suggestion.

[Wilma]

Just what do you think the hidden agenda is here?

If all the elected officials belonged to the PTA, etc., how would they be able to vote on anything.  I see no conflict of interest.  What I do see is a county commissioner who is trying to make Elk County a better place to be.

By the way, do you live in Elk County?  If so, how long?  If you have recently moved here and bought property, why did you choose Elk County?

[Patriot]

Just what do you think the hidden agenda is here?

If all the elected officials belonged to the PTA, etc., how would they be able to vote on anything.  I see no conflict of interest.  What I do see is a county commissioner who is trying to make Elk County a better place to be.

By the way, do you live in Elk County?  If so, how long?  If you have recently moved here and bought property, why did you choose Elk County?

Again, what I or anyone thinks isn't the issue.  What the facts are is the issue.  What may or may not be an agenda of any official can't be reasonably determined without all the facts regarding activities, relationships, etc.

What you may see, from your vantage point, may or may not help the fair determination of a legal conflict of interest.  Do you have information about the inner workings of EK, LLC or any unpublished negotiations or interactions between EK and the government or either of those and other entities (ie the Tradewinds folks, Public Square, the State of Kansas)?  If you have those details, it would sure be helpful.

Yes, I live in Elk County, which makes me a citizen in the venue under consideration in this thread.  One day or 90 years, what does that have to do with anything here?  Are you wanting to attend our next family gathering?  When I came here, recently or otherwise, has nothing to do with why I came here.  Whether I bought, rent or lease is also irrelevant.  I will say, however, that I selected Elk for a number of reasons, among which is its' geographic location, natural beauty, abundant wildlife and unique agricultural possibilities.  To be honest, there were some things that opposed my decision.  Those included the  high content surface rock. the lousy county roads, a lack of infrastructure, the standoffish nature of its' residents to anyone perceived as a 'newbie' or outsider, the tendency of some of its' residents to be gossip mongers regarding the private affairs of other residents (especially when overheard in public places) and the ridiculous tax rates.  The lack of community growth, the dwindling population, the absence of a fancy new school buildings, or an imported tile roof on the courthouse or the high property crime rates reported annually to the FBI were of concern, but they were something I believed I could live with.

Hope that helps.

[Lookatmeknow!!]

Yes, I live in Elk County, which makes me a citizen in the venue under consideration in this thread.  One day or 90 years, what does that have to do with anything here?  Are you wanting to attend our next family gathering?  When I came here, recently or otherwise, has nothing to do with why I came here.  Whether I bought, rent or lease is also irrelevant.  I will say, however, that I selected Elk for a number of reasons, among which is its' geographic location, natural beauty, abundant wildlife and unique agricultural possibilities.  To be honest, there were some things that opposed my decision.  Those included the  high content surface rock. the lousy county roads, a lack of infrastructure, the standoffish nature of its' residents to anyone perceived as a 'newbie' or outsider, the tendency of some of its' residents to be gossip mongers regarding the private affairs of other residents (especially when overheard in public places) and the ridiculous tax rates.  The lack of community growth, the dwindling population, the absence of a fancy new school buildings, or an imported tile roof on the courthouse or the high property crime rates reported annually to the FBI were of concern, but they were something I believed I could live with.
Ok, so you went born and raised here. I don't think that matters. Your right you have a right to know these things as do we all. But not sure if you are joking about the reasons that you opposed the area or not. If you are not, that right there makes you an outsider to me. I personally like new people coming into the area. I don't have a problem with that at all, it's the comments like this:    there were some things that opposed my decision.  Those included the  high content surface rock. the lousy county roads, a lack of infrastructure, the standoffish nature of its' residents to anyone perceived as a 'newbie' or outsider, the tendency of some of its' residents to be gossip mongers regarding the private affairs of other residents (especially when overheard in public places) and the ridiculous tax rates.  The lack of community growth, the dwindling population, the absence of a fancy new school buildings, or an imported tile roof on the courthouse or the high property crime rates reported annually to the FBI were of concern, but they were something I believed I could live with.

That's just RUDE!!