Sunshine... taxpayer funded farm subsidies in Elk County, KS

[Lookatmeknow!!]

I yes, I'm sooooo perfect!! No, I do see what your saying. Do you happen to see now what I'm taking about. Just cause I said something, you are now bashing me. Telling me that basically, what is it that you said live in an imperfect world and how do I cope??? I am so far from perfect, but talking to you two is like barking up a tree, you don't like it if people don't totally agree with you on all the things that you say. Just cause I stated my opinion, you are now basically name calling again. Why is it that people can't debate things without using name calling or trying to make the other person look like a pile of crap if they don't agree with you.

Oh, Have a wonderful day!! And yes, I happen to pay a big amount of taxes!!!! And I vote, too. Is that alright with you?

[mtcookson]

I honestly haven't seen any name calling or any attempt to make anyone look like a pile of crap. If so please let me know as I had no intention of doing so, if you're talking about me.

I've personally just been stating my opinions and facts about the subject without trying to call anyone stupid, degrade them, or anything. If you felt that way about any of my replies then I'm very sorry, that wasn't my intention.

[thatsMRSc2u]

Uh......my post was aimed at Steve? Not you Angie! I was stickin up for you for cripes sake!

[evanstrail]

I promised myself to stay out of this, but I just can't.  If organizations as far apart ideologically as the Environmental Working Group and the Heritage Foundation can both find ways to bash farm subsidies . . . well then I guess they must be bad!

But let me lay something out here that very few people think about and even fewer grasp.

How many businesses sell a product that they actually "grow"?  Most businesses sell a product that someone else made, or that they extracted directly from the Earth. 

Farmers "extract" plants from the Earth.  Now, most of the time they could probably grow enough to keep their family fed without any inputs other than what Mother Nature provides. 

But what about the other 200+ people that rely on that one American Farmer for their food! 

To produce enough food to feed the nation, a farmer needs inputs that are not provided by Mother Nature:  fertilizer, hybrid seed, pesticides, mechanized labor.  And to get the crop to the consumer there is needed transportation and processing requiring more energy and labor inputs.

It has often been said that farmers are the only business that buys retail and sells wholesale.  For the most part that is true.  Farmers pay retail for fuel, fertilizer, equipment, seed, chemicals, etc.  And by and large they receive first level wholesale prices for their "commodity" output.

And to do all this, the farmer is 100% at the mercy of the weather and a myriad of factors beyond their control that affect both the price they pay for their inputs, and the price they receive for their outputs.

How many of you would like to commit all of you and your family's personal assets to start, or stay in a business as risky as farming?  How many would if the government gave you a small safety-net to help even out the highs and lows in profitability, knowing that even with the government payments in 2-3 years out of every decade you will not have enough to cover all of your costs?   
Many studies were done in the late 90's-early 00's showing that without governmental assistance, farming would have only been profitable 2 out of 7 years during the mid 90's.  If you care to dig into the numbers the Environmental Working Group so conveniently agglomerated for you (so they seem to be bigger than they actually are)  you'll see that the payouts in direct payments vary from year to year, matching the ups and downs in profitability.   

I could go on, but I know that for most of you this will just go in one ear and out the other.  For those I have a final thought from a bumper sticker that was on many grain trucks and pickups in Elk County twenty years ago –

"If You Complain About Farmers, Don't Do It With Your Mouth Full"

[thatsMRSc2u]

[Lookatmeknow!!]

thatsMRSc, I know you were. I wasn't talking about you!! I agree with what you posted.

mtcookson, I guess it is more the way that things are put. So, I might or might not get a subsidy. So, I did get a generator and FEMA helped pay for it. It's not like I don't work and pay taxes, so who am I taking the money from? Myself, is the way that I see it. If I was a single mother working to just put food on the table and got food stamps and medical cards for my children, why is that bad??? Many people don't have the luxury that others do. I am saying its their right if they want to get help from the government. If I have a farm and my crops are distroyed, what if I don't have insurance on them??? (Which I would if we did), but some small farmers can't afford it. So, they risk it. And then the government offers a subsidy to farmers that had crops distroyed and I get some. What's wrong with that??? The last really big flood we had, washed out miles and miles of fence on us. Do you know what it cost to replace that fence?? Thousands of dollars, and thousands of hours. Why if the government is offering it shouldn't I get to take it? Please answer me this!! So, it's not in the constitution, there are alot of things that are not in the constitution, but some of the things have been amended and added. The constitution was writting so that it could progress with times. I have just got done studying this in my class. That's why there is a way spelled out in it to amend the different things.

[sixdogsmom]

Just as an aside; there is a difference between susidies and disaster relief.

[srkruzich]

I yes, I'm sooooo perfect!! No, I do see what your saying. Do you happen to see now what I'm taking about. Just cause I said something, you are now bashing me. Telling me that basically, what is it that you said live in an imperfect world and how do I cope??? I am so far from perfect, but talking to you two is like barking up a tree, you don't like it if people don't totally agree with you on all the things that you say. Just cause I stated my opinion, you are now basically name calling again. Why is it that people can't debate things without using name calling or trying to make the other person look like a pile of crap if they don't agree with you.

Oh, Have a wonderful day!! And yes, I happen to pay a big amount of taxes!!!! And I vote, too. Is that alright with you?

Name calling?  I never called anyone any names.  I just spoke the truth. The Government only takes by Force to give to others.  Thats absolute truth! 

[mtcookson]

So, I might or might not get a subsidy. So, I did get a generator and FEMA helped pay for it. It's not like I don't work and pay taxes, so who am I taking the money from? Myself, is the way that I see it.

Everyone else who also pay taxes.

If I was a single mother working to just put food on the table and got food stamps and medical cards for my children, why is that bad???

Government assistance is neither constitutional nor very efficient. Public charities would be able to help you much better than the government if the government would just get out of the way.

I am saying its their right if they want to get help from the government.

Last I checked, getting money from the government is not a right. It is an abuse by the government to redistribute other peoples' money. Completely unconstitutional.

If I have a farm and my crops are distroyed, what if I don't have insurance on them??? (Which I would if we did), but some small farmers can't afford it. So, they risk it. And then the government offers a subsidy to farmers that had crops distroyed and I get some. What's wrong with that???

If they want to risk it that is their choice and they need to suffer the consequences. There are multiple options though to avoid such an issue. Some of which include being prepared by simply saving money for just such instances or you could ask for public charity, not unconstitutional government assistance. Like in that link I posted above, public charity will most likely end up helping you more than the government can and will be better in the long run.

The last really big flood we had, washed out miles and miles of fence on us. Do you know what it cost to replace that fence?? Thousands of dollars, and thousands of hours. Why if the government is offering it shouldn't I get to take it? Please answer me this!! So, it's not in the constitution, there are alot of things that are not in the constitution, but some of the things have been amended and added. The constitution was writting so that it could progress with times. I have just got done studying this in my class. That's why there is a way spelled out in it to amend the different things.

Heck, just fencing my yard is going to cost more than I'd like to spend so I can definitely imagine how much that could be.

The simple fact is, the government should not be nor is allowed to be offering it. We should be more honest and just no, we'll deal with ourselves or look for charity from the people, not the government.

The Constitution is NOT a living document. What is written is how it is meant to work. Yes you can amend it but you can also heavily abuse it, which has already been done. Some of the amendments have slowly put our country into jeopardy. Some of the amendments were good and needed but others have only done harm, which just goes to show how right they had it in the first place.

If a lot of the leaders today were able to amend it the way they wanted to, the U.S. would turn into an absolute nightmare. If we would get back to a constitutional government we would not be having near the problems we are having today. The more power the politicians were given, the worse the country got and still continues. Just look through our history and its easy to see. More government was not, is not, and will never be the answer... LESS government will always work better as proven by history. (just to clarify, less government does not include no government )

[srkruzich]

So, I did get a generator and FEMA helped pay for it. It's not like I don't work and pay taxes, so who am I taking the money from? Myself, is the way that I see it. If I was a single mother working to just put food on the table and got food stamps and medical cards for my children, why is that bad??? Many people don't have the luxury that others do. I am saying its their right if they want to get help from the government.

Uhm it cannot be a right as it only serves a certain segment of the population.  A Right cannot be  taken away but foodstamps can be taken away so can everything else you mentioned.  First amendment is a right, Foodstamps are entitlements.  There is a vast difference.  The constitution did not recognize life, liberty, pursuit of happiness and foodstamps.

If I have a farm and my crops are distroyed, what if I don't have insurance on them???

Shame on you if you didn't.  better luck next year!  

but some small farmers can't afford it. So, they risk it.

Ok, so they can't afford it and they risk it. WHY IS THAT our problem?  If i invest in xyz stock and it tanks no one is going to rescue me.

And then the government offers a subsidy to farmers that had crops distroyed and I get some. What's wrong with that???

Because its money that was taken by Government.  Just because they offer it to ya doesn't make it right for your lack of preparation.  

The last really big flood we had, washed out miles and miles of fence on us. Do you know what it cost to replace that fence?? Thousands of dollars, and thousands of hours.

One word.....Insurance.

So, it's not in the constitution, there are alot of things that are not in the constitution, but some of the things have been amended and added. The constitution was writting so that it could progress with times. I have just got done studying this in my class. That's why there is a way spelled out in it to amend the different things.

Your getting the liberal version of constitutional classes. IT IS NOT A LIVING DOCUMENT!   IT is written in stone!  THE ONLY THING in the constitution that can be Amended is the bill of rights and the first 10 things in the bill of rights, along with everything before the bill of rights cannot be amended ever.  The ONLY WAY you can amend that is to dissolve this nation through a constitutional convention and that won't happen.
Next thing is to amend the constitution takes 3/4 of the country to amend it.  Its very difficult to do.

Last thing is why would anyone amend it to add a right to get subsidies?  Its not even a function of the government.