Is $200 Oil Possible?...

[redcliffsw]

I think the energy market will find its way.  Our real problem is the Fed's and
those people and businesses who want their entitlements and monies from the
Federals.  Yet, folks (Americans) ought to oppose it.  Most will not stand because
they don't want to lose their gov't check or they must be thinking this storm will pass.
This talk of the "founding fathers" seems much too strong for many and it's
regarded as "obsolete".

Of course, third world countries don't use much fuel either. 

[srkruzich]

I think CNG is the best and most plentiful alternative for the near term. In West Texas there were CNG filling facilities readily available. Many of the big truck stops are adding CNg facilities. Tulsa OKlahoma is replacing all of their city buses with CNG powered buses. The US has far more Natural gas reserves that they have oil. CNG is clean burning not as volatile and is plentiful. Higher gasoine prices will bring changes. We need to do away with the big gas guzzlers. Hummers that get 6-7 miles to the gallon don't make sense. GM is selling more big gas guzzling pickups than ever. The rest of the world is adding vehicles at an all time high rate and we will be facing an energy shortage that is going to have serious reprecussions. I think the possibility of a vehicle that is battery powered and has a charging system that will recharge itself while running has great possibilities.

Well hummers got to 14 city /18 hiway on the h3.  So that was a improvement. But One thing that is a problem is that around here, you have to have a heavy truck to do the farm chores.  we haul wood and water with a 1968 ford f100 pickup with a 6 cyl engine.  IT BARELY hauls it at a whopping speed of 30 mph and it takes its toll on the truck.

I can't see electric vehicles doing the job especially with the Elk county dust that just cakes onto the engiens and vehicles.  It doesn't take long before it permeates everything.   I don't know if LNG or LPG has the oomph to power the trucks on a farm operation.  I suppose it would have to be tested to see. 

We'll see in the next few years what designs come out though.  Its just inevitable that it will happen.

[mtcookson]

Sorry i'm wrong on that, they have liquid port injection systems and they can direct inject LNG into the cylinder.  BUt LPN not yet. Cummins sells a engine that Direct injects LNG into the cylinder And a couple foreign companys do also.

i think LNG is the dirty fuel and propane is clean or so it was explained to me by a Gas man.   I know you have to use a .063 on LPN and .098 for NG.

LNG is just liquefied natural gas. The problem with natural gas is that is takes very cold temps to get it into liquid form and keep it there which is why you'll never see a car running on LNG.

CNG is compressed natural gas and will be the only good way of using it in vehicles. CNG is just like an air compressor and tank. They just compress the natural gas into a tank to 3600 psi for most tanks. The problem is by just compressing the gas you don't get a lot of volume. The Honda Civic Sedan has a 13.2 gallon fuel tank. The Honda Civic GX, which uses CNG, has the gasoline equivalent of 7.8 gallons at 3600 psi.

Surprisingly they were able to nearly match the normal Civic's fuel economy at only 1 less mpg in town. The CNG Civic gets 24/36 mpg. Your range is nearly cut in half but, unlike electric, you could refill your tank just like a gasoline car within a few minutes so, with the proper infrastructure, the only thing you'll have to do differently is just fill up more often than you're used to.

It does lose 27 hp and 19 ft. lb. of torque but that's actually not bad. They bumped the compression from 10.5:1 to 12.5:1 on the GX. That's the best way to make up for the lower "power" of natural gas.

Here is where propane is able to exceed CNG. It can be stored as a liquid at normal temperatures. Since it can be stored as a liquid, with a proper injection system, you can inject the propane as a liquid (instead of vapor like the majority of propane systems) into the intake manifold just like standard fuel injection systems. Because propane instantly vaporizes it cools down the air tremendously and mixes with the air much better than atomizing gasoline. This, along with higher compression ratios, allows propane to retain the same power or even produce more than gasoline and get equal or better efficiency.

As far as direct conversions go, you will lose power and fuel economy by switching to an LPG or CNG system without increasing the compression ratio. You could turbocharge or supercharge the engine to increase power, which shouldn't be an issue due to the octane rating of either, but both options would take extra work and money to pull off. You could probably make even more power than stock with LPG/CNG and a turbo or supercharger. Those are always fun.


Edit: Forgot to add, one huge benefit to CNG is that we have a TON of natural gas. Would definitely be a good route to heavily reduce our foreign oil consumption.

[srkruzich]

Yeah CNG not LNG.  Sorry lol.  I agree that CNG is a viable fuel source but these companies need to make it cheap enough to convert existing equipment. SHoot they could probably give the mod kits away for free and make a fortune.

Just checked a stock today and its looking good too.  I had invested a little at a time in American oil n gas and hess bought them. Since my initial purchase in 2009 my stock has given me a 119% return on investment.   I'm going to start buying into HESS under the sharebuilder plan.  I expect that the stock will split and it will be a good growth stock.  Don't have to put much into it either every month for it to build up.

Friend of mine found AOG and it was a pennystock when we bought into it. Went from 1.50 to 10.00 a share before hess bought it and converted the stock.  Was one awesome success.

[mtcookson]

Just so happened to be looking at some CNG prices the other day. If the prices are correct, you can get CNG at $0.75 per GGE (gasoline gallon equivalent) in Bartlesville, OK. Imagine being able to fill up for less than $1 a gallon again.

[frawin]

MTC, you are correct in your observation on CNG vs Gasoine. The historical trade off  between the price of Natural Gas vs  crude oil, on a BTU bais  was 6-1,i.e. $30.00/bbl crude vs $5.00/mmcf currently that trade off in the markets is 20 to 1, $88.00 crude oil vs $4.30 Natural Gas.  In addition, at current demand levels the US has in excess of 100 years of Natural Gas reserves. The conversion of vehicles from gasoline to CNG is not that costly or complex. I think we need to continue to pursue all alternate fuel sources and CNG should be high on the list.

[Patriot]

$200 oil?  Read the headlines at this moment.... Egypt, Tunisia, Albania, Jordon, Lebonon.  I expect the price of crude to skyrocket at any moment.

And our govt is busy obstructing domestic production.  The Green Weenies will have their way and the rest of us are screwed.

[Patriot]

And as I typed, protesters jumped tankers in the Suez Canal and the price of crude jumped $2.  Up $4 just today! 

Open ANWR & offshore production today!

Wind & solar electric won't run & lubricate my car, harvest wheat,  or deliver my groceries to Batson's!  Let alone are they usable in 90% of the consumer products we rely on daily.

[frawin]

Patriot, the Obama program is to take away Drilling incentives and Capital from the oil companies. If the oil comapnies and most especially the independents can't recover Exploration and dryhole costs they are not going to drill the more risky prospects.

[redcliffsw]

Without the Federal income tax, the fed's couldn't being taking other peoples' money and stealing their liberties too.