Building doesn't collapse

[Diane Amberg]

So then what did you mean with "God knows I tried?"I did not start the business about 911 and the building not collapsing. I just responded because I am very familiar with the subject. There is no real proof that anybody but the terrorists did anything. When you are ill do you go to a Doctor or Glen Beck?   That's OK, Truthers have to hate anybody with a different view...it's in the Handbook. They aren't allowed to listen to anybody except other Truthers and must bash anyone with an original thought, so you are right up to form. If you don't have a group to hang out with ya get kicked out. They also cannot allow themselves to ever be proven wrong about anything. Their psyche can't stand it and they get really mad and attack in as mean a way as possible . You'll get extra points for cutting on me so enjoy it. It doesn't bother me in the least. By the way, certainly not everything is about me or here, 911 WAS. All four planes went down within two hours of here in three different directions. North, west and south west.You still haven't figured out where I live.

[Warph]

As to what I 'think'... at the moment, I opine that your world view & reaction to myself & others here seems akin to that of Chicken Little... limited in scope, absent consideration given to viable alternatives, lacking depth & given to overblown expressions of self-importance.

Hmmmm..... you might have a good point on this last paragraph, Patriot.  

Lets try this one on for size.
 
Are we safer now than we were on 9/11?  It sounds like a simple question, amenable to an answer or at least a serious conversation... and I like simple.  We are so polarized in America these days that it almost seems more difficult to tell now than it was in the immediate aftermath of the attacks.  Let me try and answer the question as fairly as I know how.

So of course we are safer.  

During the 1990s, al-Qaeda ran training camps through which as many as 20,000 fighters may have passed.  It was able to operate successfully during that decade and into the next because most governments treated the group as an annoyance rather than a major national-security challenge.  After the attacks, the world's attitude changed dramatically, and the series of security measures instituted since then have proved effective.  Take one example: sealing cockpit doors has made it highly unlikely that an airplane could ever again be used as a missile.  In addition, U.S. forces went on the offensive in Afghanistan, toppling the regime that supported al-Qaeda, destroying its camps and chasing its recruits around the mountains of the region.  Washington, in partnership with other governments, has tracked the communications, travel and...most important.... money that fuels terrorism operations... blocking these at every turn.   I continue to believe, the Bush administration deserves credit for these measures.   Whatever one may think of its subsequent decisions, its policies to secure the homeland and go after al-Qaeda in 2001 and 2002 were mostly smart and successful.

As much as it pains me to admit this.... Obuma's decision to amp up the campaign against al-Qaeda in Pakistan has further fractured the group.  As a result, al-Qaeda "central".... Osama bin Laden and his gang... has been whittled down to about 400 fighters.  It has been unable to execute large-scale attacks of the kind that were at the core of its strategy....to hit high-value American targets that held military or political symbolism.  Instead, the terrorist attacks after 9/11 have been launched by smaller local groups, self-identified as affiliates of al-Qaeda, against much easier sites.... the nightclub in Bali; cafes in Casablanca and Istanbul; hotels in Amman, Jordan; train stations in Madrid, Tokyo and London.  The fatal problem with these kinds of attacks is that they kill ordinary civilians.... not U.S. soldiers or diplomats... and turn the local population against Islamic radicals.

The real threat of al-Qaeda was that it would inspire some percentage of the world's 1.6 billion Muslims, sending out unstoppable waves of jihadis.  It didn't work.  In fact, according to stats from State... across the Muslim world, militant Islam's appeal has plunged.  In the half of the Muslim world that holds elections, parties that are in any way associated with Islamic jihad tend to fare miserably, even in Pakistan, which has the most serious terrorism problem of any country today.  Imagine that.  Over the past couple of years, imams and muslim leaders across the world have been denouncing suicide bombings, terrorism and al-Qaeda with regularity.  But for some reason, you do not hear of this through the American media.    The American media.... MSM... hmmmm... I wonder why?  (Tongue in cheek).

Of course, we are not 100 percent safe... nor will we ever be.  Case in point: The 19 yr. old college student that wanted to kill 10.000 people in Portland, OR.  Open societies and modern technology combine to create a permanent danger.... small groups of people can do terrible things... tho' I imagine it would be tough to do terrorism in North Korea.  We could make ourselves much safer still, but that would mean many, many more restrictions on our freedoms to move, congregate, associate and communicate.  

So the legitimate question now is: Have we gone too far?  Has Obuma's vast expansion in governmental powers and bureaucracies... layered on top of the already enormous military-industrial complex of the Cold War.... warranted?  Does an organization that has as few as 400 members and waning global appeal require the permanent institutional response we have created?   Believe it or not... I've been pondering this for some time now.  During the Bush years there was a reluctance on the left to acknowledge that the administration could have done anything worthwhile to counter terrorism.  I have started to think the far greater problem is on the far-right... why?.. because where it has become an article of faith that we are gravely threatened by vast swarms of Islamic terrorists, some within this country.  This campaign to spread a sense of imminent danger has fueled a climate of fear and anger.  It has created suspicions about U.S. Muslims who are more assimilated than in any other country in the world.  Ironically, this is precisely the intent of terrorism, wouldn't you say?  My opinion anyway.

Hell, I really believe that Bin Laden knew he could never weaken America directly, even if he blew up a dozen buildings or ships here in the United States.  But, he probably knew he could provoke an overreaction by which America weakened itself.  And that, sport fans, is what has happened.

[Diane Amberg]

Well, shut my mouth wide open..not bad, not bad at all.

[jarhead]

Thanks WARPH. Great analysis.

[Teresa]

So then what did you mean with "God knows I tried?"I did not start the business about 911 and the building not collapsing. I just responded because I am very familiar with the subject. There is no real proof that anybody but the terrorists did anything. When you are ill do you go to a Doctor or Glen Beck?   That's OK, Truthers have to hate anybody with a different view...it's in the Handbook. They aren't allowed to listen to anybody except other Truthers and must bash anyone with an original thought, so you are right up to form. If you don't have a group to hang out with ya get kicked out. They also cannot allow themselves to ever be proven wrong about anything. Their psyche can't stand it and they get really mad and attack in as mean a way as possible . You'll get extra points for cutting on me so enjoy it. It doesn't bother me in the least. By the way, certainly not everything is about me or here, 911 WAS. All four planes went down within two hours of here in three different directions. North, west and south west.You still haven't figured out where I live.

Seriously??   You can sit back on your sanctimonious throne and actually have the gall to say all that? I HAVE NEVER HATED anyone who disagreed with me.. nor do I imagine anyone else in this forum on the "Truthers" side has.  
You know Diane.. I have sat in this forum for the past year or so.. biting my tongue..*as LOTS of people have been doing* listening to you blow and go on how important and smart you are....and how no one will ever know where you stand because you just like the debate yada yada yada.. Debate is one thing.. but seems what you also seem to like is stirring the pot..and when someone says one little thing against you or what you have posted.. then it's ALL about you! Everything is always ALL ABOUT YOU!~~you pitch your tantrums calling fowl play... and putting on the big poor me theatrics....  crybaby whining threatening to not say another word.. ( which most of us hold our breath in hopeful anticipation) but like most Narcissists.. you are right back making sure every topic has your first hand experience written all over it. It doesn't matter what is being said..  YOU have done it.. YOU have seen it.. You have been there.  YOU will in one way or another up everyone and make sure that we all know that you have done it better.  Have you always held the title Miss Know It All Diane..?

Do you realize that you negatively judge people for things that you do the exact same thing?  

Take the statement..." they also cannot allow themselves to ever be proven wrong about anything"   WHAT??  
Good Lord Diane.. you need to step back and take a good hard long look in the mirror! Talk about calling the kettle black..
I actually sometimes feel sorry for you.. You seem to be dealing with some pretty emotional deep insecurities. You always have to be the center of attention.. always have to be right.. always have to have the last say and have to try to prove ( maybe to yourself..) that you are the expert  on every single subject that is talked about in here.

I have been more than a little frustrated and at my wits end with this thread I admit.. but like I said in my earlier post...
I believe one way.. others believe another way..  That's just the way it is.  Am I disgusted and tired of the whole thing? You betcha.. and that is precisely why I haven't said or debated anymore in here.  It is futile.. No one's minds are going to be changed..and if everyone is ok with what they believe.. then great.. I know I am.
The thread had run its course and I think everyone probably had agreed..  But you just can't stand it... In this thread..you actually had a few people agree with you. It excited you so much you did 5 triple back flips and thought you had been picked most popular girl in school and decided to  go ahead and take it to the next level of being able to be catty and hateful and still have your "following"...

Lets get one thing straight lady ( and I use that term very very lightly when speaking to you right now) ..
I am not mad at anything anyone SAID about 9-11..What I am..is  I AM totally pissed off at YOU and what you said in that last paragraph that you spouted off in.
How dare you!!  None of those things needed to be said! They were not anything to do with debate that you say you so love to do.. They are only your negative shit stirring opinions..
You throw that kind of crap out hoping that someone will grab the bait..
( which I did) and when its grabbed and acted on...then you will suddenly become the victim and once again. start whining and running around telling everyone how you're being picked on.. Then~~as fast it starts..the tears and self pity dries up like a fart in the wind and you gaily and happily announce how it doesn't bother you in the least.. Its almost like there's mental instability there.. and its kinda creepy actually.
Finally~~
It makes me so mad at myself that I have allowed you to finally get to me.. I've kept others calm all year long.. and now .. I have not done what I always advocate doing in this forum.... and that is ignore and walk away. Instead of retreating.. I reloaded..and fired..
For that , I apologize to the other members of this forum..

[Patriot]

Hell, I really believe that Bin Laden knew he could never weaken America directly, even if he blew up a dozen buildings or ships here in the United States.  But, he probably knew he could provoke an overreaction by which America weakened itself.  And that, sport fans, is what has happened.

Bingo!  Not to mention that very overreaction, subsequent division & weakening  may be clouding our vision as to present internal political activities/hasty governmental expansions that could result in a collapse of the Republic that we all probably prefer to the alternatives.  Remember all the empires that have come and gone before us.

[Patriot]

So then what did you mean with "God knows I tried?"

I had tried to point out that it really isn't about 9/11.  It's about the radical present divisions & emotional knee jerking that 9/11 has wrought.  But your immediate return to the myopic vision about responder training, shows that you missed my point completely.

I did not start the business about 911 and the building not collapsing. I just responded because I am very familiar with the subject. There is no real proof that anybody but the terrorists did anything. When you are ill do you go to a Doctor or Glen Beck?   That's OK, Truthers have to hate anybody with a different view...it's in the Handbook. They aren't allowed to listen to anybody except other Truthers and must bash anyone with an original thought, so you are right up to form. If you don't have a group to hang out with ya get kicked out. They also cannot allow themselves to ever be proven wrong about anything.

And you're still missing the point.  BTW, your so far down the totem pole your familiarity with the 911 subject is no more or less valid than that of anyone else in this chicken coop. Remember my earlier observation about overblown expressions of self-importance?

Their psyche can't stand it and they get really mad and attack in as mean a way as possible . You'll get extra points for cutting on me so enjoy it. It doesn't bother me in the least.

Don't flatter yourself.  1)  I don't need validation from anyone on this forum.  I'm a tad more secure than that.  2)  If it doesn't bother you, then why continually bring it up.

All four planes went down within two hours of here in three different directions. North, west and south west.You still haven't figured out where I live.

I've never really tried to figure out where you live, nor do I really give a rats ass.

[Patriot]

It makes me so mad at myself that I have allowed you to finally get to me.. I've kept others calm all year long.. and now .. I have not done what I always advocate doing in this forum.... and that is ignore and walk away. Instead of retreating.. I reloaded..and fired..
For that , I apologize to the other members of this forum..

Your name's Teresa, not Mother Teresa.  No apology needed here, shit happenzzzz.

[Varmit]

I know I said I was done with this thread, but after Dianes last post.....well F'k that.

There is no real proof that anybody but the terrorists did anything.

Theres no real proof that terrorists did it either .

That's OK, Truthers have to hate anybody with a different view...it's in the Handbook. They aren't allowed to listen to anybody except other Truthers and must bash anyone with an original thought, so you are right up to form.

Funny, cause all I see the Truthers doing is actually looking for the truth, yet they are the ones being called terrorists supporters, anti-american, crazy, stupid, etc...seems to me they aren't the ones with the hate problem.

They also cannot allow themselves to ever be proven wrong about anything.

No proof has been offered yet. 

You'll get extra points for cutting on me so enjoy it. It doesn't bother me in the least.

Then quit trying to turn everything someone says into a personal attack about you.  And even if it was and it doesn't bother you, then shut the F'K up about it!

By the way, certainly not everything is about me or here, 911 WAS. All four planes went down within two hours of here in three different directions. North, west and south west.

No it wasn't about you.  YOU weren't the only one that lost friends that day, YOU weren't the target.  YOU don't live in NYC so YOU DON'T have first hand knowledge of it. 

[Diane Amberg]

That's OK, I have no delusions about having friends out there. After all, they are just faking it according to one of you. Patriot,  I did misunderstand your comment. I'm sorry. I guess I'll never understand why my sharing what I knew about 9-11 made some of you so angry. I wouldn't get mad at Teresa if she'd been involved in a big competition, misinformation was posted and she spent some time correcting it because she had been there. And it was one of my "fake" friends that sent me the several pages on the Truthers. Actually, your reaction is what the article said Truthers would do.Try to devalue the worth of someone that has an an opposing idea. Make them appear to be without any knowledge of the subject, preferably publicly. Especially if it's someone in authority. As far as my "whining" that stopped that long ago once I figured out that the crudeness of a few came naturally. I even warned you I would no longer put up with personal attacks. I have been true to my word. However, I have not cussed anybody out, used rude rough language, called anybody stupid or tried to make anyone feel inferior for having a different idea. I just didn't agree and tried to show proof that wasn't just from some blogger but from witnesses who were there. You won't believe me, so be it. I never said I had first hand knowledge
of 9-11 but when people who did talk about it one tends to listen and believe them. So be mad all you want it doesn't change a thing.   I think this TSA mess is more important now anyway and have great concerns about some things that have suddenly dropped off the radar, like illegals. Varmit, I'm sorry if you lost somebody in 9-11. I didn't know that.