Building doesn't collapse

[Varmit]

  As far as the whole thing is concerned, you all don't even agree among yourselves, depending on whose conspiracy theory you read. Black boxes, no black boxes, data recorders or voice recorders or both or neither?

And why do you suppose that is?...Could it be that the offical story doesn't make sense?  That the officals, to this day, can't even get their story straight?  That none of the lists of passengers from match? 

One of you didn't even think a plane had hit the Pentagon ...so martians took flight 77? All the witnesses ,including the military were wrong? The security cameras lied, as did the people outside who saw it go down, saw the wing shear off as it partly hit the ground and sliced into the first floor. The responding firefighters and police officers, who were there for a long time, lied about what they saw, who they rescued and the parts of the plane they collected.

The offical story, and the eye witnesses reported that they saw flight 777 skid across the pentagon lawn before hitting the building...wheres skid mark?  The security cameras...good question, why hasn't the gov't released that footage?  Wing sheared off...really, then where is it?  Cops and firefighters...arrived after the fact, weren't on scene at the time of impact.  Parts of the plane they collected...where was the heavy equipment needed to clean up the debris?...oh, thats right...all the debris was small enough to be carried away by hand at ALL FOUR CRASH SITES.  Convienent.

I don't know if it was reconstructed or not. Usually when a plane crashes, the parts are secured and taken to a big warehouse where the plane is reconstructed and analyzied.

Remember now Diane, the offical story is that all four planes were compeletly "vaporized" at the time of the crashes.  Remarkable, in that this type of destruction to a plane has never happened before, yet all four planes that crashed on the same day suffered the same fate.

The ME was in on it too? 184 bodies  were recovered at the Pentagon and identified except for 5 from the building fire, they weren't from the plane.They know who they were,  but they were incinerated so recovery was impossible.

Why would the ME have to be in on it to?  All he did was identify bodies and determine the cause of death, which was pretty evident.  By the way, where do you suppose the ME got the list of passengers from?  And which list did he use?  Because the list the FBI put out doesn't match the list put out by the airline which doesn't match the list put out by anyone else etc?


By the way, no one is saying that the Pentagon wasn't attacked.  They're just saying it wasn't a plane that hit it.

[jarhead]

Varmit,
I do not even pretend know the answers to your questions but I do know this---back in the early 70's, right about dark , several people south of town heard a plane fly over with engine sputtering, then the lights went out. A single engine plane carrying 3 Texas hunters returning from an Iowa pheasant hunting trip had run out of fuel. They think they were trying to make an emergency landing in a pasture but the wheels on their plane hooked the main electric transmission line running into Longton. The remains of the wreck were directly below the electric lines. I would guess the lines are 50-60 feet above the ground and that little plane made a hole between 2-3 feet deep and they loaded what was left of the whole plane in a trailer made from the bed of a pick-up truck. Now if a plane gliding, then "tripped" and slammed to the ground for 50 feet, was reduced to that size---wonder what happens when a plane going several hundred miles an hour smashes into reinforced concrete ?

[Sailmexico]

Jarhead,
Your story of the wreckage of a private plane fitting into a small trailer is anecdotal evidence that doesn't pass the smell test.  Neither is there an official record of such an accident.  Check it out for yourself here http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/query.asp

The NTSB reports 119 fatal accidents in the state of Kansas during the 1970's, none of which occurred near Longton. 

While hitting reinforced concrete at 510 miles per hour would do tremendous damage to the 200 ton mass of an airliner it would not disappear. 

As for you assertion, though not specific but rather insinuated, that there was enough reinforced concrete to somehow destroy the airplane to the point of elimination... it simply isn't true.  The only reinforced concrete wall was the exterior wall as shown by these photos.  The inner walls were two layers of unfilled brick, which would barely have offered resistance to such a force.



This hardly looks like the path of a 747.





So we have one known reinforced concrete wall, at the front of the building, and one two-layer brick wall at the rear. In between would have been internal walls which would offer further resistance, but don't believe anyone who gives you totals like "nine feet of reinforced concrete"

It should be also noted that whatever hit the Pentagon had ONE engine, else there would be two exit holes.  Nothing past the outside wall would have been able to stop two 747 jet engines made of titanium and weighing 50,000 pounds apiece.

[Varmit]

Fair enough Jarhead, but answer me this, why is it that folks who profess to have a strong distrust of the gov't, buy the offical story of 9/11 with no question?  I'm not trying to start anything here, I just don't understand their logic.

[jarhead]

Quote sailmexico
The NTSB reports 119 fatal accidents in the state of Kansas during the 1970's, none of which occurred near Longton.

Really ?? So I really don't give a rats ass what YOUR web site says. I know what I saw. You want witness's ? call Ron Vestal in Longton  he heard the plane sputtering before it crashed---and he went to the crash site. If he's still alive, get a hold of Cig Cigannero the KGE man from Moline who found the crash. Watts funeral home in Moline put what was left of the bodies in trash bags. Fred Tyler from Moline was there. ask him . Ask JR Ferguson here in Longton,and was later a deputy Sherriff for the county, Hell ask his son, Elk county Deputy Dan Ferguson, I think he can enlighten you. You want more witness's that went to the site of the crash I will give you their names and furnish ph numbers. Better yet, come to Longton and I will personally take you to where the plane crashed as I'm sure there is still a depression in the ground and after pastures are burnt we can still find small pieces of aluminum. On second thought, maybe you better not come here until you apologize for calling me a liar

[jarhead]

Varmit, I was wrong about the plane that crashed south of Longton. It left Nebraska , not Iowa, and it's destination was Neosho ,Mo, not Texas BUT if sailmexico wants to go back and check out HIS website and look up fatal crashes just look at Oct 20,1971---tail # N2784N----Cessna 182J---fatalities-3---site NEAR LONGTON,KS.
(your apology accepted !!!! )

[Diane Amberg]

My My My...We're still at it are we? Varmit, I never said the firefighters saw the plane crash, but they saw the aftermath  a few minutes later including the plane parts and the injured and the bodies. Who said the planes "vaporized?''I didn't. I said 5 of the bodies in the building were incinerated and not recovered. They figured out who was missing but they couldn't recover anything ,just as was the case with a few people at the towers. So you are still saying that it wasn't a plane that hit but somehow the passengers from flight 77 wound up dead inside the pentagon? That airplane was never seen again and it's ID numbers were seen by a driver nearby who was, he said, a pilot himself and caught sight of part of the numbers before it hit. Some say it hit the ground just feet before entering between the first and second floor, other say it hit the helipad just feet before entering the building. Regardless the rubble outside when the build's several stories collapsed would have hidden any marks on the ground. It was a beautiful September day and lots of people were out and about. By the way, the plane traveled 310 feet into and through the building's A B and C rings The engines likely would not have reappeared out the exit hole.They were off the plane by then so the "two hole" theory doesn't work . Yes, the plane parts and rubble were relatively small. Why wouldn't they be?  The plane burned in a hot fire. A plane is a hollow tube filled with fuel and people and luggage etc. There really isn't much soild or bulk there. And the building, several stories, fell on it.
  There are photos of equipment working to clear the rubble. I just looked at one on snopes. and googled several others, just looking for photos and found many. I guess it depends on how you search, but I found lots of photos with no problem, including the very poor security camera footage that CNN. com has. If you can find Joel v.d. Reijden's site there are photos of wheels and things.
Varmit the reason most people believe the stories that were released at the time is because not everything is different from what it is told to be. Sometimes things really are what they seem to be. I wouldn't want every detail released either just for someone's gory pleasure. There is such a thing as "need to know." Too much public information can help our enemies! Loose lips sink ships!
 The terrible photos of the people who were so brutally killed in the lower parking garages after the first Trade Center bombing weren't released to the public either.The average person doesn't need to see a man's body after it was blown through a chain link fence like pushing cabbage through a cole slaw cutter because of the pressure wave caused by the bomb going off on his car's parking floor.
 You were mad at our Gov't before 911 and I'm sure you'll still be mad even if the terrorists who set this up confessed to a man. So think what you want.

[jarhead]

Fair enough Jarhead, but answer me this, why is it that folks who profess to have a strong distrust of the gov't, buy the offical story of 9/11 with no question?  I'm not trying to start anything here, I just don't understand their logic.


Right you are Billy. I do have a strong distrust of THIS CURRANT Govt .!!! I meant to call you out on your statement that you don't think Oswald acted alone in shooting JFK.  Oswald shot Kennedy and needed no help. How do I know this ?? Because my senior Drill Instructor told me so !!! He said," that's what happens when you put a deadly weapon in the hands of one motivated Marine" So would you doubt what your Drill Instructor told you, Billy ?? I thought not !!

[Varmit]

Because my senior Drill Instructor told me so !!! He said," that's what happens when you put a deadly weapon in the hands of one motivated Marine" So would you doubt what your Drill Instructor told you, Billy ?? I thought not !!

Actually Jarhead, I would doubt what he told me if it made no sense...guess thats the difference between Army and Marines...one has the ability to think for themselves the other doesn't...Ones looking for a few good men, the other already has them

[Diane Amberg]

Time to put on hip boots before reading any further.