We need to Stop the Mosque

[ELK@KC]

The Muslims are rubbing our nose in 9/11  

I read about the Cordoba House established in Cordoba, Spain
many centuries ago after the Moors conquered the Christians.
A cathedral was converted into a mosque and named accordingly.
A reversal happened when the Moors were driven from Spain.
Google explains the history.  

Subject: Superb Statement
This is the most clearly stated, sensible, and historically accurate
statement that I've read on this issue (and I've read a lot of them).

Statement on the Proposed "Cordoba House" Mosque near Ground Zero

July 21, 2010 6pm
There should be no mosque near Ground Zero in New York so long as
there are no churches or synagogues in Saudi Arabia. The time for
double standards that allow Islamists to behave aggressively toward us
while they demand our weakness and submission is over.
The proposed "Cordoba House" overlooking the World Trade Center site –
where a group of jihadists killed over 3000 Americans and destroyed
one of our most famous landmarks - is a test of the timidity,
passivity and historic ignorance of American elites. For example,
most of them don't understand that "Cordoba House" is a deliberately
insulting term. It refers to Cordoba, Spain – the capital of Muslim
conquerors who symbolized their victory over the Christian Spaniards
by transforming a church there into the world's third-largest mosque complex.
"Cordoba," in Islamic symbolic terms, means Islamic rule in the West.
Today, some of the Mosque's backers insist this term is being used to
"symbolize interfaith cooperation" when, in fact, every Islamist in
the world recognizes Cordoba as a symbol of Islamic conquest. It is a
sign of their contempt for Americans and their confidence in our
historic ignorance that they would deliberately insult us this way.
Those Islamists and their apologists who argue for "religious
toleration" are arrogantly dishonest. They ignore the fact that more
than 100 mosques already exist in New York City. Meanwhile, there are
no churches or synagogues in all of Saudi Arabia. In fact no Christian
or Jew can even enter Mecca.  And they lecture us about tolerance.
If the people behind the Cordoba House were serious about religious
toleration, they would be imploring the Saudis, as fellow Muslims, to
immediately open up Mecca to all and immediately announce their
intention to allow non-Muslim houses of worship in the Kingdom. They
should be asked by the news media if they would be willing to lead
such a campaign.
We have not been able to rebuild the World Trade Center in nine years.
Now we are being told a 13 story, $100 million megamosque will be
built within a year overlooking the site of the most devastating
surprise attack in American history.
Finally where is the money coming from? The people behind the Cordoba
House refuse to reveal all their funding sources.  America is experiencing an Islamist cultural-political offensive
designed to undermine and destroy our civilization. Sadly, too many of
our elites are the willing apologists for those who would destroy them if they could.
No mosque.  No self deception.  No surrender.
The time to take a stand is now - at this site on this issue.

[kshillbillys]

AMEN! Wonderful statement! We agree completely!

[Warph]

I'm glad you brought this up.

Let me start off saying Islam is not just a religion, it is an all encompassing ideology which is not considered actually functioning unless ALL spheres of ALL societies on earth are under its control!

I give you the following Islamic Sunnah quote:

"The earth belongs to Allah and should be purified for Allah, and it cannot be purified for him unless the banner 'no deity except Allah' is unfurled across the earth."

Islam considers all societies that are not ruled by Islamic clerics and Shariah law as "Jahiliyyah" societies, or ones that are in ignorance of the guidance of Allah!  And that it is the primary duty of all Muslims to proselytize others to become Muslims.  Quranic teachings instruct all Muslims to go beyond simple proselytization.  If a government (such as the USA) prevents Muslim proselytization then it is the duty of every Muslim to make war against those governments (like the USA) until those governments allow Muslim proselytization.  Then once Islam has been allowed to proselytize, Muslims are to first ask non-Muslims (that is you, my friend) to become Muslims voluntarily.  If they (you) accept fine, but if they (you) do not then Muslims are commanded to forcibly subjugate those who will not accept Islam.  Then these people are known as Dhimmies! (Those under the "protection" of the Muslim government) And the Dhimmies are to be forced to pay the jizyah (unbeliever's tax in lieu of Military service).  Ready to become a Dhimmie

Remember the above Islamic Sunnah quote?

So you can see why they think they can do what the hell the want. 

If the Mosque building does have a political agenda...it's a smart play. They can push it and push it with the help of Obuma and Bloomberg, the MSM and the bleeding heart liberals for a while, while complaining of intolerance, and then at the last minute decide to move it elsewhere (the Mosque) purporting to show that it is Islam which is the superiorly tolerant and accommodating religion, not the hostile American Christianity that tried to make it move.  In a way, the success of this fallacy is more troubling than the construction on the mosque itself.

It is hypocritical of Muslims to demand respect while they show glaring insensitivity and intolerance by their insistance to build a mosque commemorating the 10-year anniversary where Islamic jihadists embraced the same repressive ideologies to justify their unconscionable mass murder.

So... has the symbolism been lost?  Are we so mired in political correctness that we lose common decency and respect for one another?? 

Using the ongoing painful legacy of 9/11 to engage in a political campaign to reverse America's core doctrine of religious freedom under the guise of healing outreach and interfaith understanding is not only a provocation, but a gross insult and an indignity to the memory of those who died.  Remember 9/11/2001..... remember how you felt on that day that 3000 Americans died?

I predict that after all is said and done, this mosque will not be built but, I'm afraid, a tremendous amount of damage has been done... to NYC... to Gr Zero and the 3000 that died... and to the American public... because of the liberal lacky!

....Warph

[Diane Amberg]

I know this is a emotionally a tough one, but how can people who demand the Constitution be followed at all costs, be so quick to toss it aside when something like this happens?  People abuse freedom of speech all the time and are protected by the Constitution. People demand their gun rights, and have them, because of the Constitution. Suddenly it doesn't count because it's not popular? Is it because our fundamentalists, who demand that they must preach and spread Christianity to the masses, have bumped heads with Islamic fundamentalists who feel just as strongly about their faith, which for them is also their culture? Is it really more than just a cultural center two blocks from ground zero when there is already a mosque four blocks away? I understand the heart wrenching problem for people who live right there and lost people on 911.  Is it really a human rights issue rather than a religious one?  Is this a scape goat for our other troubles? It sounds far fetched but if we toss aside the constitution for this one, what's next? Dismantle all the amendments? I too, hope they can compromise somehow and put it somewhere else, but not have to resort to threats of violence and arson to do it. That keeps very bad company.

[Roma Jean Turner]

Over my sometimes colorful years of life I have encountered and been involved in various Christian groups.  I am sure many for a number of reasons prayed for my soul, were sure I was a sinner headed to hell and prayed for me and sometimes preached in my face because they wanted to make sure that I heard the gospel of Jesus Christ in whatever version they were using.  They wanted to make sure that I knew I had the CHOICE to be a believer or not.  They wanted that so I would go to heaven, not hell.

Much as I sometimes felt they were obnoxious or pushy I never once worried that they might try to  destroy me, my country or my way of life (other than hoping that I would follow the Ten Commandments).  I knew that, hypocrits as we all can be, these people wanted to try to be honest and just.  Being seen as a sinner is not the same thing as being seen as an infidel who is to be ultimately coerced in to complying or else having no human value.  Women's issue's?  Don't have time to even begin.

The mosque that has been there, has been there.  That is the point.  We know that mosque is a place of worship.   We have a lot of questions about this new one for a lot of reason.   Given the current situation with radical Islam, I believe we have the right and the responsibilty to our own safety to ask these questions.   They may have the Constitutional righ to build it, but as I
said in another thread, when the principles we have established are twisted to be used against us.......it is GAME OVER Baby.

[Diane Amberg]

Nicely said! I hear and read all kinds of things about where the money to build it is coming from, the most recent being the crown prince of Saudi Arabia. If that fact were known it sure might answer some questions about their intent.

[Warph]

I know this is a emotionally a tough one, but how can people who demand the Constitution be followed at all costs, be so quick to toss it aside when something like this happens?  People abuse freedom of speech all the time and are protected by the Constitution. People demand their gun rights, and have them, because of the Constitution. Suddenly it doesn't count because it's not popular? Is it because our fundamentalists, who demand that they must preach and spread Christianity to the masses, have bumped heads with Islamic fundamentalists who feel just as strongly about their faith, which for them is also their culture? Is it really more than just a cultural center two blocks from ground zero when there is already a mosque four blocks away? I understand the heart wrenching problem for people who live right there and lost people on 911.  Is it really a human rights issue rather than a religious one?  Is this a scape goat for our other troubles? It sounds far fetched but if we toss aside the constitution for this one, what's next? Dismantle all the amendments? I too, hope they can compromise somehow and put it somewhere else, but not have to resort to threats of violence and arson to do it. That keeps very bad company.

Okay.... I cannot dispute the fact that they have a right to build this mosque if you drag the Constitution in on this but, keep this in mind... there is, in fact, a difference between the exertion of a legal right and supporting the use of a legal right that is offensive...  and remember, this institution will be built on American grounds and the wounds are still very much too fresh to have this happen.  Yes, as President Obuma said, they have the right to freedom of religion, but is it wise to build near a site which is sacred to Americans who lost their lives and the families who are still living with their grief?  I think not!  The institutions plans can either be delayed to allow the healing process which would be many generations down the road or they can choose another site.... preferably the upper part of Manhattan..... but there is no option or choice to speed up the healing process of all the memories of those who lost their lives and their families who are still in mourning.

Ask yourself four questions, Diane:
1) What would have been the reaction in 1955 if the Japanese wanted to build a Shinto temple next to the Arizona in Pearl Harbor?
2) Where is the money coming from and why do they want to build in one of the most expensive parts of Manhattan?
3) Where are the Muslims coming from to worship at this Mosque?  This is the financial district.  Usually you build a church or temple near the homes of your parishioners.
4) And last.... have you forgetten, Diane that we are war with the Islamic jihadists who did thid terrible thing on American soil? 

Like I said, they clearly have a right to build this mosque but, nobody with a working brain should ever allow it to happen.  Most union construction workers say they will refuse to help build this Islamic mosque and cultural center.  We should demand that the Imam behind this project disclose the identity of his financial backers.  And while you're at it Mr. Imam, what gives you the unmitigated gall to propose this project in the first place?  Americans cannot and shall not allow this issue to die until construction is stopped and the mosque is moved to a more palatable and appropriate location.

....Warph

Over my sometimes colorful years of life I have encountered and been involved in various Christian groups.  I am sure many for a number of reasons prayed for my soul, were sure I was a sinner headed to hell and prayed for me and sometimes preached in my face because they wanted to make sure that I heard the gospel of Jesus Christ in whatever version they were using.  They wanted to make sure that I knew I had the CHOICE to be a believer or not.  They wanted that so I would go to heaven, not hell.

Much as I sometimes felt they were obnoxious or pushy I never once worried that they might try to  destroy me, my country or my way of life (other than hoping that I would follow the Ten Commandments).  I knew that, hypocrits as we all can be, these people wanted to try to be honest and just.  Being seen as a sinner is not the same thing as being seen as an infidel who is to be ultimately coerced in to complying or else having no human value.  Women's issue's?  Don't have time to even begin.

The mosque that has been there, has been there.  That is the point.  We know that mosque is a place of worship.   We have a lot of questions about this new one for a lot of reason.   Given the current situation with radical Islam, I believe we have the right and the responsibilty to our own safety to ask these questions.   They may have the Constitutional righ to build it, but as I
said in another thread, when the principles we have established are twisted to be used against us.......it is GAME OVER Baby.

Super... very well stated, Roma Jean.... you couldn't have put any more clearly than that!

[frawin]

Over my sometimes colorful years of life I have encountered and been involved in various Christian groups.  I am sure many for a number of reasons prayed for my soul, were sure I was a sinner headed to hell and prayed for me and sometimes preached in my face because they wanted to make sure that I heard the gospel of Jesus Christ in whatever version they were using.  They wanted to make sure that I knew I had the CHOICE to be a believer or not.  They wanted that so I would go to heaven, not hell.

Much as I sometimes felt they were obnoxious or pushy I never once worried that they might try to  destroy me, my country or my way of life (other than hoping that I would follow the Ten Commandments).  I knew that, hypocrits as we all can be, these people wanted to try to be honest and just.  Being seen as a sinner is not the same thing as being seen as an infidel who is to be ultimately coerced in to complying or else having no human value.  Women's issue's?  Don't have time to even begin.

The mosque that has been there, has been there.  That is the point.  We know that mosque is a place of worship.   We have a lot of questions about this new one for a lot of reason.   Given the current situation with radical Islam, I believe we have the right and the responsibilty to our own safety to ask these questions.   They may have the Constitutional righ to build it, but as I
said in another thread, when the principles we have established are twisted to be used against us.......it is GAME OVER Baby.

Roma Jean , you said it very well and with lots of thought and wisdom. If you look at the Muslims and their religion, does it deserve the protection of our Constitution??? They have the belief that they can beat their women, wives, daughters etc, not only beat them but kill them in the name of religion, in fact they have done it here in the states. The Muslims do not believe in the values that this Nation was founded on  and they will do everything in their power to destroy it.

[Warph]

"Your tax dollars at work": Ground Zero mega-mosque could get public financing

As if you didn't already know you have a personal stake in the outcome of this project. Imagine, as a New York taxpayer, a piece of your daily labor being appropriated to enable its construction.

When developers get a break that's made possible with public money -- say, for a football stadium -- there is rightful scrutiny of the merits of the project, and no one is branded a football-phobe. When a developer goes into a neighborhood, acting aggressively and without regard to the concerns of residents, part of the population affected by developer's plans will often organize to challenge it. And no one gets called a developer-phobe. In these regards, the project has gotten a free pass in some circles because it is a mosque.

It should not get a pass on public money.

"Ground Zero Muslim center may get public financing," from Reuters, August 28 :

NEW YORK (Reuters) - The Muslim center planned near the site of the World Trade Center attack could qualify for tax-free financing, a spokesman for City Comptroller John Liu said on Friday, and Liu is willing to consider approving the public subsidy.
It's not near Ground Zero. It was struck in the attack, by part of an instrument of the attack -- a hijacked plane. If this site had nothing to do with Ground Zero, why would Rauf & Co. be so hell-bent on planting a flag in it?

Of course, we know that's exactly the reason. And as Frank Gaffney pointed out, even Rauf had called it the "Ground Zero mosque."

The Democratic comptroller's spokesman, Scott Sieber, said Liu supported the project. The center has sparked an intense debate over U.S. religious freedoms and the sanctity of the Trade Center site, where nearly 3,000 perished in the September 11, 2001 attack.

"If it turns out to be financially feasible and if they can demonstrate an ability to pay off the bonds and comply with the laws concerning tax-exempt financing, we'd certainly consider it," Sieber told Reuters.

Spokesmen for Mayor Michael Bloomberg, Governor David Paterson and the Islamic center and were not immediately available.
The proposed center, two blocks from the Trade Center site in lower Manhattan, has caused a split between people who lost relatives and friends in the attack, as well as conservative politicians, and those who support the project. Among those who support it are the mayor, civic and religious groups, and some families of victims.

The mosque's backers hope to raise a total of $70 million in tax-exempt debt to build the center, according to the New York Times. Tax laws allow such funding for religiously affiliated non-profits if they can prove the facility will benefit the general public and their religious activities are funded separately.

The bonds could be issued through a local development corporation created for this purpose, experts said.

The Islamic center would have to repay the bonds, which likely would be less expensive than taxable debt.

New York City's Industrial Development Authority could not issue debt for the center because the state civic facilities law, which governed this type of financing for non-profits, was allowed to expire about two years ago.

[kshillbillys]

Warph--You can't possibly know what's going on in New York with the mosque, after all you live way out West in Arizona and New York is right up there next to Diane. She knows what's going on, you do not, as usual. (Sarcasm dripping from my tongue and even tho that was sarcasm, it still left a disgusting taste in my mouth!)! But I don't give a crap what the mindless drone in Delaware has to say. Keep up the good work Warph. I love all of your posts!


MR. KSH