MLK and the road of dependency and socialism

[redcliffsw]

Here's an excellent read by Elizabeth Wright who is black.  Thought I ought to get that fact out before our leading liberal forum
members read this one.

The Civil Rights Myth
Integration & the End of Black Self-Reliance
-Elizabeth Wright

If Congress had resisted the social pressures and stood by the principles in the Constitution, what was supposedly a race problem would quickly have been resolved. And imagine, the black bourgeoisie would have had to compete in order to prosper.

http://www.alternativeright.com/main/the-magazine/the-myth-of-civil-rights/

[srkruzich]

Good article and hit the nail on the head!   
Theres one thing in this world that racism and discrimination will never control, that is the color of green.  I remember when there were a ton of black businesses, and communities of black areas that met their own needs.  In early 1800's eli whitney invented a ton of stuff, including the cotton gin, a amory, medical devices ect.  His son after his death invented the whitneyville colts that the texas rangers used.  Then went onto build a water plant and other various interests.  The entire whitney family father, son grandsons all went on to invent, and become successful businessmen that competed with white folks.  What happened?  There were many many many blacks that became highly successful, powerful and did it through competition not integration and socialization.

[Diane Amberg]

Why would it matter whether she's black or not? A black writer is no more correct or not than a white writer.( Why the snipe at "liberals?'' That wasn't necessary.) She's gotten some things right and some wrong. The deep south had the ugly forms of discrimination, from the separate drinking fountains, marked white only and colored only. The white one was usually a true nice drinking fountain and the colored only was something less, possibly a piece of junk or just a spigot. (I saw it myself!) It was done to make a point. Yes, I know, at least there was water. Some gas stations had whites only restrooms  and an out house out back for colored, if that. Ugly kidnappings and deaths were wrong!  As far as commerce is concerned ,you go back far enough, the town and city colored folks did just fine here and north of here .. (I can't say about the south except what I read and that wasn't pretty.) The colored areas of Philly, New York  did have nice colored owned stores, ( banks would loan them money) They had good jobs ,spent their money and nobody gave it a thought until the south exploded. The civil rights movement did hurt them. The black communities, mostly, but not all urban, felt they had to go along. The young adult black males, much like many young adult white males, didn't have a lick of sense and followed into artificially created trouble. Not thinking about the long range economic impact, some burned out their own communities. Many of those areas never did recover.
  Red, I have no idea how old you are, but I lived through that period as a child and young adult. I remember it quite well, at least the parts I was exposed to. I don't know where you live, but I don't know if you've even known any middle class black people.
   Steve, what's a amory? The only problem with colored businesses was the ones that depended on bank loans to get started. Many banks wouldn't loan money to colored. Inventors usually did OK because they could start small and get money to start with from their own communities, where people had money "on the street." to loan. Washington DC is very strange in that it had and still has areas of very poor rough blacks with terrible homicide rates, and also areas with extremely wealthy multi millionaire blacks that live totally separately and want nothing to do with those "street niggers."

[srkruzich]

The deep south had the ugly forms of discrimination, from the separate drinking fountains, marked white only and colored only. The white one was usually a true nice drinking fountain and the colored only was something less, possibly a piece of junk or just a spigot. (I saw it myself!) It was done to make a point.

Whoa hold on a min, that is not true.  THey did have separate fountains and separate bathrooms. But the water fountain was a waterfountain, no different that the whites only fountain.  How do i know, i was there, during that time.  And there was no difference in the facilities.  I on more than one occasion was scolded for drinking out of the wrong fountain.  To me they were the same and no difference. The ONLY DIFFERENCE IS Location and signage.  The whites fountain was centrally located and easier to get to, the blacks fountains were located in some back hallway near the restrooms.

Secondly in the restaurants, there was a colored entrance and a white entrance. The colored entrance usually was in the back, and they sat in the back of the restaurant while whites got seats by the street.  Never figured out why the whites wanted street scene over back of the house.

The food was the same, the plates, silver and service were the same. Only they had a black waitress serving the blacks. 

Yes, I know, at least there was water. Some gas stations had whites only restrooms  and an out house out back for colored, if that.

And i remember outhouses for the whites too in many stations.  You gotta remember some of those stations were old enough to be first built in the early 1900's.

Steve, what's a amory?

Armory i typo'd.

The only problem with colored businesses was the ones that depended on bank loans to get started. Many banks wouldn't loan money to colored. Inventors usually did OK because they could start small and get money to start with from their own communities, where people had money "on the street." to loan. Washington DC is very strange in that it had and still has areas of very poor rough blacks with terrible homicide rates, and also areas with extremely wealthy multi millionaire blacks that live totally separately and want nothing to do with those "street niggers."

back then no one loaned money unless your credit was impecible and most whites couldn't get a loan if they tried unless they were rich as far as business loans.  Most businesses were started on a kitchen table and grown on a cash basis only.  Even Xerox, apple, companies like that were started on kitchen tables or in garages and grown on sales of prototypes and such.  It wasn't until the businesses were established and had assets and working capital before they could get loans. Most borrowing was done amongst friends and families. 

I don't understand this concept that everything has to be equal and fair.  Poppycock is what that is.  Because someones skin is darker than mine isn't reason enough to penalize me for my color and stack the deck in their favor.

One thing that really torques me is when i see two people going for the same job.  ONe is immensely quailified and has more than the job requests the other candidate doesn't meet the requirements of the position and that person gets the job because he's not white.  Thats bull crap.  I have had it done to me before, and if i ever have it done again, i would sue for discrimination.  But they use that BS entitlement program that hires minorities over whites.  I'm sorry but if the minority isn't smart enough for the job then don't hire them.  IF they can't compete in a job market, then thats their problem. Go to school and get up to speed and become qualified.  I earn my way, its not been given to me on a silver platter.  i have never had someone give me my job, i earned my jobs.  I have never had a education given to me i earned it.   I expect the same out of anyone in this country.  Earn it or get out of my way. 

[Diane Amberg]

Sorry Steve, I'm telling you what I saw with my own eyes, mostly in VA. and NC. We drove down there many times over the years, often going to Cape Hatteras, but also Raleigh, Richmond, Roanoke, Wheeling and more further south than that. Yes, there were old places that had out houses for all. A few had same fountains. I only mentioned the ones where there was, sadly, a distinct difference. The water fountains I saw were not inside at all . The doors to the rest rooms were on the outside of the building, as were the water fountains. There were no halls. I do remember the eating places. Some didn't serve colored at all, and there were signs posted, others were as you remember.

[srkruzich]

Sorry Steve, I'm telling you what I saw with my own eyes, mostly in VA. and NC. We drove down there many times over the years, often going to Cape Hatteras, but also Raleigh, Richmond, Roanoke, Wheeling and more further south than that. Yes, there were old places that had out houses for all. A few had same fountains. I only mentioned the ones where there was, sadly, a distinct difference. The water fountains I saw were not inside at all . The doors to the rest rooms were on the outside of the building, as were the water fountains. There were no halls. I do remember the eating places. Some didn't serve colored at all, and there were signs posted, others were as you remember.

You also have to remember a lot of places were just plain outright poor.  I know places right now today, that do not have plumbing, water or even wood floors that people live in.  Still use outhouses and still haul water from the creek.  I supsect that you were on a coastal run, and that area is still destitute in many areas especially around piedmont NC.  All along i95 down from williamsburg to around Savannah is very poor still in many areas, and there was a lot of what you were syaing.  West SC, NC, Georgia, Alabama, MS, Tennessee all had less of it but it was still there.  But there was a lot of folks that would go to the black restaurants.   The black restaurants did a thriving business.  One that i remembered was Aunt Fannies Cabin and it was always packed out.  Southern food at its finest.  The whole concept, Mind you black owned in the 60's 70's 80's, menu was on a board that the owners kids would walk around with hanging over their shoulders.  long tables much like picknick tables, and you sat down and ordered and waited.   Then when it was served it was brought out by rather large black women dressed as mammies and they would serve your first plate to you by dishing it up, and bowls of food were left on the table for seconds and thirds...

I remember a couple years ago not sure when one particular black restaurant closed due to times i guess.  Couldn't make it anymore. it was a restaurant that king used to frequent during his civil rights thing, and the restaurant lived for a long time on that fame.  Now its like folks go soooo what. 

Now why am i tellin you about these two restaurants?  Because....
The first restaurant was started by someone who had excellent business sense.  He had a theme for his restaurant, and a target clientelle.   

The second was in existance and served blacks in the 60's and lived off of its noteriety because king ate there. 

The first restaurant was boycotted and eventually put out of business by the NAACP for being Politically incorrect,
The second restaurant died because it never had any substance to begin with and without the intelligent thinking that went on in AFC this second restaurant could not draw new customers in.  When its old customers died off, there wasn't anything left to do but shut the doors.

[Diane Amberg]

Yes Steve, I taught poor kids in Cecil county MD. ( Elkton.  yes, that one )     Muddy Lane and Dogwood Road, dirt floors, Kerosene heat and no plumbing, very little electric and they bucketed their water from Elk Creek, which is the far upper end of the Chesapeake Bay. But they worked very hard, had big gardens and managed pretty well.

[sixdogsmom]

Sounds just like the way that I grew up, and I suspect many from my generation around these parts did the same. We had an outhouse, a hand driven well, and no indoor plumbing. We had a kerosene cookstove, and a coal stove for heat. Yes we raised a large garden, and chickens every year for meat. Baths were taken on the kitchen floor in a washtub. Mom was really uptown when she got water to the kitchen sink, and a cesspool to catch the dishwater. We did not have an indoor bathroom until 1952. Poor? I guess we were, but we had a family with security. We read to one another at night while the rest of us cracked nuts or sorted a barrel of scrap hardware my dad brought home for recycling. I made A's all through school, and grew up with a love for reading. It was a wonderment for me when I found out I could read a 'big' book that had no pictures; just those mind absorbing words. Diane I think you must have been a gift for those children. And Steve, what Diane is saying goes along with what I remember seeing. One of my first jobs was as a waitress in a small restraunt next to the Missouri Pacific station in Wichita. Part of my job was to serve the colored porters and conductors in the back part of the business. The accomodations were nowhere near as nice as those the upfront patrons enjoyed; however those men always got good service from me and they always got good food from the management. I was very pleased when I received a tip from these gentlemen.

[srkruzich]

Sounds just like the way that I grew up, and I suspect many from my generation around these parts did the same. We had an outhouse, a hand driven well, and no indoor plumbing. We had a kerosene cookstove, and a coal stove for heat. Yes we raised a large garden, and chickens every year for meat. Baths were taken on the kitchen floor in a washtub. Mom was really uptown when she got water to the kitchen sink, and a cesspool to catch the dishwater. We did not have an indoor bathroom until 1952. Poor? I guess we were, but we had a family with security. We read to one another at night while the rest of us cracked nuts or sorted a barrel of scrap hardware my dad brought home for recycling. I made A's all through school, and grew up with a love for reading. It was a wonderment for me when I found out I could read a 'big' book that had no pictures; just those mind absorbing words. Diane I think you must have been a gift for those children. And Steve, what Diane is saying goes along with what I remember seeing. One of my first jobs was as a waitress in a small restraunt next to the Missouri Pacific station in Wichita. Part of my job was to serve the colored porters and conductors in the back part of the business. The accomodations were nowhere near as nice as those the upfront patrons enjoyed; however those men always got good service from me and they always got good food from the management. I was very pleased when I received a tip from these gentlemen.

Well as far as the living conditions, i am talking bout today folks are living like that.   If you ever have been up in the n ga mountains right on the state line of NC, SC, GA you will find the poorest of the poor you have ever seen.  That area is where the foxfire books were written about and from.   Still that way today. 
On the other topic, i am not your age so i wouldn't have seen it in the 50's, but i grew up with it in the 60's, and 70's and in the hotbed of it in atlanta.  Like the article said, i believe that it would have corrected itself if government had of stayed out of all of it.  Like i said before, no one discriminates against green.  I grew up in that era, was around it, personally i have seen more racism develop towards whites than ever was towards the blacks in the years since.   The biggest racists on the planet today are jesse jackson, and the kings in atlanta, that rev up in new york can't remember his name and maxine walters or waters not sure of last name.  Those individuals made fortunes off of stirring up trouble.

It is still strange here to not see black folks around in this area. 

[redcliffsw]

The racial troubles in the South were initiated by the north/yankees.  Folks got along
pretty good among themselves in the South until the yankees took control in 1865. 
After the WBTS, the yankees separated the whites and blacks and the yankees stirred
hatred between them.
 
Of course, since then, the gov't schools have not taught the truths to whites and blacks.
How else can they justify Lincoln's war?