Turkish terrorist organization IHH involved bigtime in the Gaza flotilla fiasco

[Warph]

its amazing how you and so many people out there can only see israel as being the evil ones, when they defend themselves against THOUSANDS of rockets and missiles being fired at their people.   THeir nto the one blowing up markets and bus's and businesses targeting civilians.  They do respond when pushed so far, and yes civilians do get killed but thats because the enemy is too coward to stand up and fight.  They have to hide behind civilians.   

I know, your stance as you have made it well known many times is that if israel wasn't there, there wouldn't be any fighting. Well thats not a valid argument.  Israel is there, and it is their land, and they do have a right to defend themselves from any and all aggressors.     

What really needs to be done is that if the folks in Gaza cannot or will not remove the terrorists, and those who attack Israel, then Israel needs to go in and clean house completely.  After all, its Israeli land, and the folks living there are doing so because Israel hasn't run them off.  By all rights, Israeli land goes from Mediterranean sea all the way to iran border, and from turkey down to the red sea.  That is the land that was given them.

Well said, Steve and I agree.  The way it sits as of now, Egypt does not want Gaza.... the Fatah is not prepared to retake Gaza... Hamas is absolutely unwilling to negotiate a permanent peace agreement.... so the only thing left for Israel to do is retake Gaza, drive out Hamas and reassert control over the area.  This will lead to short term violence, but long term peace.  As opposed to the current scenario adopted by the Obama administration which leads to both short term violence and long term catastrophe.  The blockade of Gaza is failing... not because of Israel, but because the world could not make the right choice between a democratic country and Hamas, a genocidal terrorist group that is second cousins with Al Queda.  The blockade was Israel's concession to terrorism, a passive enforcement of its borders and interdiction of arms smuggling.  The passive response is dead now.  It's time to retake Gaza or face the consequences.

[Anmar]

Hamas was elected..... it was a democratic process with international observers.  You really are telling a lot of lies, you must be losing it in your old age, you can't seriously by trying to tell that many lies on purpose?

Also, accusing someone of being anti-jew when they speak out against Israel is an outdated tactic.  There are just as many anti-Israel jews as pro-Israel jews.  And there's nothing wrong with standing against a racist, aparthied regime.  There is something wrong with supporting them, as you do.  In fact, do you also condone their acts of genocide?

[srkruzich]

Hamas was elected..... it was a democratic process with international observers.  You really are telling a lot of lies, you must be losing it in your old age, you can't seriously by trying to tell that many lies on purpose?

Also, accusing someone of being anti-jew when they speak out against Israel is an outdated tactic.  There are just as many anti-Israel jews as pro-Israel jews.  And there's nothing wrong with standing against a racist, aparthied regime.  There is something wrong with supporting them, as you do.  In fact, do you also condone their acts of genocide?

So then, if palestinians elected hamas, a terrorist organization, then they themselves must be terrorist or supporters of terrorism.  Either way, Israel has a right to defend itself, and if hamas or palestinians are embracing terrorism they have every right to  root out all forms of terrorism.

[Anmar]

Do the palestinians not have the right to defend themselves?  seems to be a double standard here.

[srkruzich]

Do the palestinians not have the right to defend themselves?  seems to be a double standard here.

No they do not have the right to attack israel.  They are first of all, living on israeli soil, secondly, they bring in a terrorist organization and essentially bed down with terrorists whose sole purpose is the extinction of jews.  So by their actions they have become terrorists themselves.  The unfortunate fact is that those people there that do not support it, are victims of hamas. 

You know its obvious that you and jerry, both would rather see evil to prosper and good men die.  Your obvious support of hamas, and al queda, show that.   Might i suggest that if you don't like how israel handles their own business, why don't you go there to "educate" the israelis on how they are wrong and terrorist organizations are right.

[Anmar]

typical neocon response, try to associate the other side with whatever evil is on your mind.  Who's talking about Al queda?  Hamas was elected by the palestinians as their government.  That was said in response to someone saying they don't have elections.  Can you debate without demonizing your opponent?

In 1900, the palestinians (arabs jews and christians) were living peacefully together.  European jews came to the land and started committing terrorist attacks against the british and arab inhabitants.  This is an old war, a group of people, zionists, europeans, came to palestine and invaded the land.  The palestinians have been fighting for their territory back ever since.  The israelis are the aggressors here.  No matter what lies you spin, thats the bottom line.

[srkruzich]

typical neocon response, try to associate the other side with whatever evil is on your mind.  Who's talking about Al queda?  Hamas was elected by the palestinians as their government. 

Al- Qaeda and the Palestinian Islamist Resistance Movement -Hamas were established in the period of 1987-1989 as offshoots of the Muslim Brotherhood (MB), a political party set up by Hassan Al Banna in Egypt in 1928. MB considered Islam to have an essential political and social character that needed to be reasserted in the face of the societal ills that had come to the Islamic world with secularism. (The Society of the Muslim Brothers in Egypt, p.28)
So yeah Al Queda and hamas are the same thing.

That was said in response to someone saying they don't have elections. 

Even North Korea and iran has elections, not that it does the people any good.  You saw how they handled elections in iran recently, anyone that protested the results disappeared.

Can you debate without demonizing your opponent?

Maybe when yall quit demonizing the israeli's for defending and holding onto what is theirs.   

In 1900, the palestinians (arabs jews and christians) were living peacefully together.  European jews came to the land and started committing terrorist attacks against the british and arab inhabitants.  This is an old war, a group of people, zionists, europeans, came to palestine and invaded the land.  The palestinians have been fighting for their territory back ever since.  The Israelis are the aggressors here.  No matter what lies you spin, thats the bottom line.

Again, as has been said many times the land in question from the mediterranean sea to iran, from turkey all the way to the red sea is Israelis land.   Right now all they have is a tiny portion of it, but they will reclaim all of their land that was given to them.  And in 1900, the land was sitting idle waiting for its owners to come back.  No arab or Palestinian owned it, they were nomadic tribes that wandered.  so they didn't have a ownership of the land.  To own it one has to settle on it and keep it in their possession, defend its borders, ect ect....
IF anyone had ownership at that time it might have been GB.  But then they just renounced ownership and transferred whatever ownership they might have had to the israelis.   So again, the land is theirs not anyone elses.   The only reason anyone can be against them living on their own land is they hate the Israelis.   
Prior to 1900 there was no concept such as the Palestinians. 
the Land of Israel, according to dozens of visitors to the land, was, until the beginning of the last century, practically empty. Alphonse de Lamartine visited the land in 1835. In his book, Recollections of the East, he writes "Outside the gates of Jerusalem we saw no living object, heard no living sound?." None other than the famous American author Mark Twain, who visited the Land of Israel in 1867, confirms this. In his book Innocents Abroad he writes, ?A desolation is here that not even imagination can grace with the pomp of life and action. We reached Tabor safely?. We never saw a human being on the whole journey.? Even the British Consul in Palestine reported, in 1857, ?The country is in a considerable degree empty of inhabitants and therefore its greatest need is that of a body of population??

SO where is this Indiginous people of palestine???  They weren't there in 1800's, they weren't there in 1900, only around 1916 there was a presence of arabic moving into the region because there were some israeli's moving into this barren desolate region and building. They provided jobs and guess what.... The arabs needed work so they came. 

[srkruzich]

Hamas was elected..... it was a democratic process with international observers.  You really are telling a lot of lies, you must be losing it in your old age, you can't seriously by trying to tell that many lies on purpose?

Maybe it was a democratic process, but it was not one that is binding on the israelis.  Castro, Iran, North Korea claims to use a democratic process, yet they still remain on a terrorist list and one that we will go in if they attack us and wipe them out. 

You made a statement that terrorism isn't evil that those who fight it are evil.  One problem there.  Both worlds have a simple commandment that the islamic/muslim/ are violating. thou shalt not covet thy neighbors house.  IF they were so right, then they would follow their own commandments as it is the moral foundation of their faith. 

So by attacking israel they are in fact in violation of one of their most respected prophets in their belief.   To deny the israelis land that was promised to them, the muslims are violating the laws that were given, and ironically the promise of the land was given to them by moses, delivered by joshua, the same moses that transcribed the laws that the muslims are supposed to follow.   
The palestinains are ruled under islamic law so why don't they follow their own laws?  They have no moral compass or justification in their quest to sieze land. 

[Varmit]

And with the actions of Israel, there stance is clear as well: THEY ARE NOT PEACEFUL AND HAVE EVERY INTENT ON KILLING.

Gee...ya' think!!  Someone attacks my home I am going to kill the son of a Bit@#.  If they were intent on "killing" the Isreali military could wipe out all of palestine in a heartbeat.  And you know what, maybe they should.  Maybe its time for the Jewish people to start dishing out what they have been given since practically the beginning of time.  If they did the world would see a bloodbath like never before, because there is not a country on the globe that could stand against them.

[srkruzich]

Gee...ya' think!!  Someone attacks my home I am going to kill the son of a Bit@#.  If they were intent on "killing" the Isreali military could wipe out all of palestine in a heartbeat.  And you know what, maybe they should.  Maybe its time for the Jewish people to start dishing out what they have been given since practically the beginning of time.  If they did the world would see a bloodbath like never before, because there is not a country on the globe that could stand against them.

Varmit that day is soon coming.  In fact the ensuing war will kill around half a billion people in the valley of meddigo.  And it won't be isralis dying either.