Gramp's ol' brown gun

[Big Hext Finnigan]

Ok.. pards, why are the old guns brown?
I understand a grey gun, the finish has worn off.  But why did so many turn brown, even guns with lots of bluing.

What was different about the method of bluing?  I have rifles that are 30 years old, modern guns, but they don't turn brown.  Are there any current finishes that really are the same?

Gracias,

[Capt. Hamp Cox]

Hey, Hext, last time I saw you shoot I thought your guns looked ok but you looked a bit rusty .

I've always heard that old guns turned brown because of the type of bluing process used at time of manufacture.  While the following excerpt addresses Civil War Enfields, I think it is most likely applicable to your ol' gun.

Hamp

"Those Enfields with barrels that appear brown today have aged that way. I am not a chemist, but I'm told that the iron oxide that forms the cold rust blue tends to lose an atom of oxygen over time, making it turn a purplish brown. This is what gunsmiths call "turning plum." I have seen this phenomenon in a tiny number of period Enfields, not more than two or three. Invariably, the bottom of the barrel will be blue, not brown, showing the original finish (I have such an Enfield, dated 1861, in my collection). In any case, guns that saw a lot of field use also likely saw a lot of red rust, which when rubbed over, tended to turn the surface finish to a dark brownish blue. Now THAT'S an authentic appearance for your musket - a good field finish. But it should start from an actual blue (really, a cold rust blue, but a modern one will do)."

http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/Quarters/1864/enf/enfblue.htm

[Russ T Chambers]

From what I have heard, the brown finish was obtained by using a salt-water solution to cause the oxidation.  I have been told of several ways to obtain the salt water, one of which involved uric acid.  Of course this was told to me by a mountain man (and we all know how reliable that story could be), but it sounds plausible.

[Delmonico]

I ain't tried it myself, but have talked to several reliable folks who have used urine as a browning agent.  (Good source of uric acid)  This is often said to be what a lot of the old time smiths used.

Gives a whole new meaning ta "just p... on it."

[El Peludo]

  Hah-hee-hee!  I can just see the looks, and hear the "eeeew" 's, now, if I ever explained this process to my kids.

[Russ T Chambers]

I ain't tried it myself, but have talked to several reliable folks who have used urine as a browning agent.  (Good source of uric acid)  This is often said to be what a lot of the old time smiths used.

Gives a whole new meaning ta "just p... on it."

As I recall the mountain man I heard this from (name of Galena Gus, I think) used a old burlap bag and a large intake of beer to perform this process on a Walker Colt replica.  Of course there was a certain amount of time lag in the process at first.

[Delmonico]

They make potasium nitrate (saltpeter) from what humans leave in the out house and chamber pot, cities had "nightsoil collectors.  Also barnyard waste and what bats leave under the roost.  Course this is one of the three main ingrediant and the bulk of black powder. 

So think of this next time ya read about Beecher's Island and the fellows seasoning their rotten horse meat with blackpowder.  Eeeww, yucky.

Think of this next time ya shoot under a target, maybe yer powder really don't have enough poop.

[Russ T Chambers]

My powder must come directly from the "Chamber's" pot.  Must have plenty of fresh nitrates.  I have been told I need to add a little more powder to my loads by the RO's and counters that get backed up by the concussion and smoke.

[Delmonico]

I use a compression die with my 45-70's.   They must be a bunch a wimps and whiners.  Used ta shoot my Sharps in the State Games in the benchrest class.  Never won, finished middle of the pack in the 10 1/2 ta 12 pound stock class.  Bet if I'd had a tellerscope on mine like the rest did, I'd a beat more a them.

One good friend tolt me fer fun if the wind changed and he couldn't see his target he'd let me know by rappin' me on the back a da head with his Dewey rod.  Course he was shootin a High-Wall in 22 Donaldson Wasp with a big long ole' Lyman Super target scope.  Either the wind stayed in his favor or he was joshin' me.

[Qball]

I ain't tried it myself, but have talked to several reliable folks who have used urine as a browning agent.  (Good source of uric acid)  This is often said to be what a lot of the old time smiths used.

Gives a whole new meaning ta "just p... on it."

Well, the prase could accualy refer to cleening your firearm too.
In the old days of swedish supremecy in europe, the cleening of flintlock muskets included
"pi...n' down the barrel and leave over night to losen up the fouling"
Honestly.

[Delmonico]

Buffalo hunters are said to have drank plenty of water and coffee before leaving camp, canteens only hold so much and more than a couple are unhandy.  Besides that many of these water based black powder solvents contain ammonia.  Kinda makes them arificial p...!

[Big Hext Finnigan]

Fascinating stuff.. so I can turn a modern blued gun brown by whizzing on it?

[Delmonico]

Color might depend on diet.   Or if the gun even survives.

[Micheal Fortune]

The only "Wizzin" stories I have heard came from Korea in the winter time sometimes they would have to "wizz" on the M1 action when it was frozen shut....

You can buy comercial browning fluid these days............ unless you like the beer and burlap method....

[Delmonico]

And there were formula's for browning solution back then also, could dig some up if any one wants them. 

But the chemicals to make them cost money, often they were down right expensive to have shipped any distance and many chemicals came from Germany, their chemical industry was the most advanged in the 18th and 19th century, but shipping was expensive and pee was free.

Folks in another time mad do with what they had.

[john boy]

If anyone is interested in blue - browning - pickling - etching - matting - derusting - denickelling and phosphating, I highly recommend this book with hundreds of recipes ... Firearms Bluing and Browning, by RH Angier, 1936

From another muzzle loading book source, I found the most beautiful butternut brown, browning recipe that I made and finished a Hawkins Rifle with.  The formula, called the Rueben Harwood Brown is:
Nitric Acid - 1/2 oz
Ethyl nitrate - 1/2 oz
95% Alcohol - 1 dram
Copper sulfate - 2 drams
Tincture of Ferric Chloride - 1 dram
Rain Water - 1 quart
Mix in a dark bottle, cork and leave to amalgamate for one week.

PS: Rueben Harwood invented the 'Hornet' cartridge 

[Delmonico]

Looks about like some of the old formulas I've seen before, the reason fer the rain water is that it is basically distilled water.  If any one wants ta make this, I would not worry bout the rain water, but would just buy distilled water.

The 22 Hornet really began life as the 22 WCF a chambering in the 1885 Low-Wall, it used the same case as the modern Hornet but was loaded with a 0.228 bullet and loaded with black powder.  Fouling, ammo cost and not much better ballistics kept it from becoming popular.

Ya know why they named it the Hornet?

[john boy]

Ya know why they named it the Hornet?

Stings like a bee?

[Capt. Hamp Cox]

One story has Townsend Whelen (who contributed to the Hornet's design while at Springfield Arsenal) upon firing it, stated:   "Boy, it's a hornet!" or words to that effect, and the name stuck.

[Delmonico]

The story if heard and have tested is this.  On a calm day have someone stand to the side about 2o feet.  Leave out ear protection (no I didn't say that   but this is a Hornet, not a 300 Weatherby)  Fire it down range a distance maybe 500 yards.  The noise of the bullet going down range sounds like a Hornet sort of.     As sounds like the sound effects of the ship guns in "The Guns of Navarone".