Shot shell loading

[Montana Slim]

Mr. Ketchum,

I figure your load must have blown a hole down the centerof your pattern....those KDs where some of the easiest to put-down (& reset) as I've encountered.

I suggest increasing the shot to 1 1/8 oz, using the same amount of powder. This will increase the resistance upon ignition (better pressure / velocity) fill-out your pattern & put more goodness downrange. To pattern, how about some cardboard cut to approximate the size of typical KD targets and place at 15-25 yds.

I don't believe you "missed" the target by not aiming correctly, but I'll share for the benefit of pards reading along & might need some additional tips:

You also may want to find the POI of your shotgun vs. your aim. Do this with a larger piece of cardboard or sheet of paper. Make a center mark on the target stand 10 yds back & fire standard commercial birdshot loads. The wad will hit the target & make a hole (repeat for the other barrel....this is the POI for each barrel. Try this several times to see if it is the repeatable & on-target. This is similar to finding out whether your rifle/pistol are "zeroed"...Consistently shouldering the shotgun, head placement, etc are key to shotgun shooting as your dominant eye is the rear sight.

I know your not a big fan of the shotgun, bit shooting it will help your score.

Slim

[Dick Dastardly]

Here's a trick I learned from hard hitting duck and phesant loads.  I took apart some of the shells just to see why they patterned so tight.  What I found is that the shot was buffered.  So, I tried some of that same buffer, Ballistic Products has it, and my patterns really got religeon.

Since I roll crimp all my bp shotshell ammo I can write on the over shot card.  I simply put a "B" on the buffered ones.  From my lil 20ga, they're a death ray out to 40 yards.  Last weekend at Hang um High I consistantly took down knockdowns that many others had trouble with.  I was shootn' a lil 20ga and others were shootn' 12 ga.

DD-DLoS

[Delmonico]

Buffering is a wonderful thing, it dates to at least the middle 19th century, of course they used ground bone meal instead of that plastic sawdust we use today.  One caution, it does raise pressures a bit so use caution when working with this and Nitro loads, never bed a load that is close to maxiumum pressure. 

Another item I picked up that helps patterens is to take a bit of 220 grit wet and dry sand paper and right at the end of the muzzle put this in and turn it enough to put a few spirals at the end of the muzzle, but not enough to remove any metat.  The wads will hit this and slow down a fraction, this keeps the wad from hitting the back of the shot string.  The shot flies truer because of this.

Shot with higher antiomony will also help, the best shot one can buy is the high antimony shot that is nickel plated, this comes from Italy and can be bought through Ballistic Products.  It is a bit expensive for CAS?WAS but is worth every penny in the hunting fields.

One other note, the high antimony shot will also have more of a chance to bounce off of steel targets.

[Delmonico]

Almost forgot, Will are you using the same wad in the brass shells as the plastic ones?  If so the larger id brass shell might not be sealing as well as gas may be leaking past the was and disrupting the shot column a bit.

[Paladin UK]

Sunwapta Haze ........

Use a larger shot size or 2) use 1/3 more shot than powder. Either will tighten the pattern somewhat but doing both tightens the pattern the most

I could not agree more my little ol 16g (Sarah to her friends ), wuz givin my terrible patterns till I added more shot and that cured my little prob!!

Paladin (What lurvs his scatterguns ) UK

[Will Ketchum]

Almost forgot, Will are you using the same wad in the brass shells as the plastic ones?  If so the larger id brass shell might not be sealing as well as gas may be leaking past the was and disrupting the shot column a bit.

No I'm not.  I use 12 gauge Alcan wads in my plastic hulls but 11 gauge over powder and cushion wads and 10 gauge over shot cards in the brass.  I am going to try more shot.

Will Ketchum

[Dick Dastardly]

Ho the fire,

It's the number of pellets on the steel that pushes it over.  No matter what, ya gots to put a lot of pellets on the steel to make it die.  I jest shot "Hang um High"  and there were a couple of tough poppers.  My lil 20ga laid 'em down pronto.  Many big testostrone twelves couldn't get the job done.  So, I'm tellin' ya, it's the total mass of lead on the target that makes it tip over.

DD-DLoS

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

I agree with DD.  I never understood the facination in CAS for sawed-off's.  Better to keep it full length, and use it often, like hunting or on clay bird ranges.  Actually, the one club match I won top overall, was the one I used a 1953 vintage mod 97 with 30" full choke.

[Will Ketchum]

I pulled the over shot cards and added as many 7 1/2s as I could fit in and still seat the card.  Most of them took a full Lee 1.3cc dipper.

Last weekend I usd them and I knocked every knock down shotgun target offered.  I even got 4 out of 5 on the shotgun poppers (which I normally miss)  I must admit one was a "volunteer" in that it broke off the tosser.

Thanks for your help.  Next time I'll use more shot from the start.

Will Ketchum

[litl rooster]

 Will, I may have missed it some where.  Are you lubing the fiber wads? If so you may want to place a card over the wad before loading shot. However a shot cup would do the same thing. I found on a couple of occassions the wad was blowing thru the shot. I would agree with the others extra shot. One other thing I found on Knock downs, I aim for the center downwards towards the base on the target. This seems to get them for me.

[Charming]

Hi there.  I'm new to The Dark Side and completely green when it comes to blackpowder loading.  I saw a blackpowder shooting exhibition and would like to know more.  I have a Winchester Model 1901 10 gauge that I would like to load brass shells for and I'm looking for any advice you can give me.  I do know how to reload regular smokeless pistol and rifle shells, but I have never loaded shotgun shells.  I don't know anything about blackpowder loading so any help you can give me would be greatly appreciated.  For instance, is there anything I should stay away from?  Thanks so much.

[Cuts Crooked]

Hi there.  I'm new to The Dark Side and completely green when it comes to blackpowder loading.  I saw a blackpowder shooting exhibition and would like to know more.  I have a Winchester Model 1901 10 gauge that I would like to load brass shells for and I'm looking for any advice you can give me.  I do know how to reload regular smokeless pistol and rifle shells, but I have never loaded shotgun shells.  I don't know anything about blackpowder loading so any help you can give me would be greatly appreciated.  For instance, is there anything I should stay away from?  Thanks so much.

Howdy Friend,

Well the collective wisdom of CAS City concerning scattergun shells is right here in this thread. Read it through carefully and you SHOULD be able to muddle your way around reloading them. One thing that comes to mind to avoid is that one normally doesn't
resize brass hulls.

Anyone else got some avoidance reccomendations for our new pard?

[litl rooster]

S'pearimint with some of them new fangled plastic hulls for that .87 win also... The brass hulls are nice and doesn't take alot of $$$$ to get started loading and can be used over and over again. Not to mention they look really good ejecting from a soot burner.

[Grapeshot]

Hi there.  I'm new to The Dark Side and completely green when it comes to blackpowder loading.  I saw a blackpowder shooting exhibition and would like to know more.  I have a Winchester Model 1901 10 gauge that I would like to load brass shells for and I'm looking for any advice you can give me.  I do know how to reload regular smokeless pistol and rifle shells, but I have never loaded shotgun shells.  I don't know anything about blackpowder loading so any help you can give me would be greatly appreciated.  For instance, is there anything I should stay away from?  Thanks so much.

The only advice that I can give, outside all the other suggestions in this thread, is when you load those brass 10 gauge hulls, use 9 gage nitro wads over the powder, 9 gauge fibre wads, and an 8 gauge over shot wad glude in place with Elmers or whatever glue/sealant of your choice.

The oversize wads will keep the gas from escaping and give enough resistance to give a good complete burn of the powder.

[JL McGillicuddy]

I am working up a BP/Pyrodex load (I know, but I have three pounds of Pyrodex RS I got for 7 bucks each left to use up) for my 12 gauge. 

I will be loading on a MEC Sizemaster, though I will likely be loading the powder using my Lyman 55 BP measure.  (Don't plan to run the Goex through the MEC, just the Pyro)

A call to Hodgdon netted me this suggestion:
1 1/8oz shot
claybusters red wad
50-65gr Pyrodex RS

I am not nuts about the idea of running plastic wads in my shotguns.  (Even less so after reading through this thread.)  My plan was to go with Circle Fly cards and wads instead.

I am loading into Winchester AA plastic hulls over Winchester primers. 

Here's my questions:
I was looking at dropping to 1oz of shot.  Stuff is pricey and I want to make it stretch if I can.  Will that hurt me at around 60gr of 2f?  (I know patterning will help answer that question, just wanted to get an idea before I start stuffing that spherical gold into hulls.) 

Will the length attained with 60gr 2f assorted cards and wads (standard 12 gauge circle fly stuff) and 1oz of shot fill the shell (2 3/4 AA) enough to give me a good crimp? 

If not, what is the easiest and most reliable way to take up the extra space?

Also, I have heard of folks spiking their shot charges with glitter and the like to give a little more "show" to their shots.  Is there any reason to avoid doing this?  Anything I should be concerned about as far as this altering the load or "show fillers" to avoid?

Thanks for the help in advance gang!

Jack Lee

[Rowdy Fulcher]

Cuts Crooked
What's your load for a Vintage Turkey load . Have you had the opportunity to get your double ready for season

[Jefro]

Here's my questions:
I was looking at dropping to 1oz of shot.  Stuff is pricey and I want to make it stretch if I can.  Will that hurt me at around 60gr of 2f?  (I know patterning will help answer that question, just wanted to get an idea before I start stuffing that spherical gold into hull.

Jack Lee

Howdy Jackson Lee, load up a couple each of a few different loads and put em on a big piece of cardboard. 60gr may blow a hole, but you'll never know till you try. You can save some money and shoot tighter patterns by using plastic wads, clean up has never been a problem for me. I've been told it's worse in some older guns and if you exceed 60gr. My 1 1/8oz load is 57gr of 2f Schuetzen, I also have a 7/8oz load using 47gr. For 1oz I'd start around 53gr with a Win pink wad. As for the glitter, I've seen it and thongs with no problem , but stay away from colored chaulks, they really choke you and others  .

Jefro

[Cuts Crooked]

Rowdy,

My SxS is an old Crecsent choked Mod x Mod. With those open chokes it's difficult to get a good tight pattern with my normal "square load". So I load 65 gr of Pyrodex RS, by volume, under an overpowder wad, NO CUSHION WAD, then I make a shot cup from heavy paper stock and fill the whole thing up with a little over 1 1/8 oz of #6 magnum shot, put an overhot wad on top and crimp. With this load I feel confident to 25 yards max, and prefer even closer if I can get the turkeys in there.
Note that I'm using pyro instead of BP in this load. That's because it crushes better than BP and I can get more in there and mash it down some for a bit more velocity.

Restricting my shots with this combo to 20 - 25 yards can be frustrating at times, I often get birds in to almost 30 and have them hang right there, but I don't feel like I can stretch it any further than that. If the season is getting short I get out my 97 Norchester and go with factory turkey loads

[Rowdy Fulcher]

Cuts
Thanks for the info . I have been loading Federal gold Medal paper hulls and they are doing a great job and the paper hulls have a beautiful crimp . The shotgun I hunt with is a TTN with a 20 inch barrel . I had it choked so could use it on Turkey. I hung a couple clay birds on a target stand and was able to break at 50 yards .

[Knarley Bob]

Well, a 'RULE OF THUMB" for muzzle loaders is equal amounts by volume of powder to shot. It does give one a nice quick load. It patterns well in my 10 and 16ga guns. I have also used that as a starting point for my cartrage guns with similar result. I don't use shot cups, I don't like that spider webby snot that is left in the bore as I am using BP or APP.
"Lubing" is just a bit of "Motor Mica" from Ballistic Products shake & bake style and a little trick I learnd by accident was the use of a "Tyvek" patch on the cusion wad. It keeps the pellets from imbedding in the shot cups on heavy steel goose loads,and they do a fine job in BP loads as well
Most older guns were designed for the fiber wads, and pattern better with those. Oh for a touch of pizzaz, put a scoop of ceiling glitter in with the shot. It's a hoot.
Regards,
Knarley