Cartridge loops - a How-to

[Slowhand Bob]

I stitched my loops with the saddle stitch but used the machine sewing pattern.  In other words I sewed from top to bottom on outside and completely up the inside diagonally to get back to the top for the next loop.  This always involved four of the diagonal stitches laying under each loop, out of sight.  I tried them all and in the end decided this was actually not much long overall and rendered the most attractive results.  The four prong punch also made this job much quicker and easier.

[Dalton Masterson]

I do above and below, either way I do it.

DM

[Marshal Will Wingam]

What do you do. Tie a square (reef) knot and pull it into the stitch hole? Or just an overhand knot?

I don't know what it's called but, on thicker leather, instead of cinching the last stitch, I leave a small loop on either side. Then I loop one needle through one side and the other one in the opposite direction. When I cinch the stitch, the knot gets hidden in the leather. This is the way I was showed to do saddles. If the leather is thin, I'll loop only one side so it isn't too much to pull into the stitch.

[cowboywc]

Howdy
If I'm doing a lined belt I jump my stitches on the backside. ( see attached pix)
If it is an unlined belt I put a deep stitch groove so I can bury the stitches so they don't get nicked.
WC

[Ten Wolves Fiveshooter]

WC, I was hoping you would jump in here with your method, on my last post I mentioned that everyone should check out your method on the FAC/HOW TOO's, but then I double checked and noticed it wasn't there, so I deleted that part, it would be a great help to a lot of pards if you could post your method there, after learning from you on sewing my bullet loops, it all came together, and it made a hard job easy and more pleasurable, I hope I'm not over stepping myself on this, but there is a big need for some of your straight forward instruction.


                                                      tEN wOLVES 

[cazio]

Howdy
If I'm doing a lined belt I jump my stitches on the backside. ( see attached pix)
If it is an unlined belt I put a deep stitch groove so I can bury the stitches so they don't get nicked.
WC

WC,
  Is that the deep stitch groove to the left that is so faint in the picture? Also are the two holes just connected by the groove and no other holes in the diagonal strip between them.

Robert

[Ten Wolves Fiveshooter]

WC,
  Is that the deep stitch groove to the left that is so faint in the picture? Also are the two holes just connected by the groove and no other holes in the diagonal strip between them.
Robert

    Casio, you want to use your free hand stitch groover to remove some leather where ever your stitching is going to lay, this helps to keep the thread from wearing, it's a big help in reducing wear on your thread, and helps keep things tight. just use the groover to remove enough leather so the thread will lay sunk in it, from hole too hole, if that's what your asking.



                                                TW 

[cazio]

Hey TW,
That is kind of what I was asking, I use my free hand groove tool on all my thread areas. In the pictures I see clearly the thread on one set but can't tell if that is another set on the far left layed into the groove. Am I correct thinking that I come out of the last hole then into the first hole of the next loop and I just put my thread into the groove to bury it? I hope that makes sense the way I'm asking.

Robert

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Thanks Marshal Will;  I will try it out on my NWMP combination pistol/carbine cartridge belt.  (check out Rattlesnake Jack's thread on carrying .45-75 ammo.)

Here's the link;

http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,23054.msg298037.html#msg298037

[Ten Wolves Fiveshooter]

Hey TW,
That is kind of what I was asking, I use my free hand groove tool on all my thread areas. In the pictures I see clearly the thread on one set but can't tell if that is another set on the far left layed into the groove. Am I correct thinking that I come out of the last hole then into the first hole of the next loop and I just put my thread into the groove to bury it? I hope that makes sense the way I'm asking.

Robert

   Casio, you are using a needle on each end aren't you ?, if so as in the picture when you make your cross over you can see how the one thread goes over to the start of the next loop, and one thread over the top of that, then you put the needle on the outside edge through the other hole with the other thread from underneath, and now you are starting your figure eight saddle stitch over again, do this to the end and then cross over again and start over, what WC is showing you is the two different ways you can crossover, which are straight across, or going up and down to cross over. When you know where your stitching lines are going to be, it is easy to use your free hand groover to groove all these lines first before you start sewing, once you get the hang of this method you will learn to appreciate it, again there are many ways to do things, this is just the one that works well for me , and I appreciate this method more and more every time I use it. If you start to run out of thread, just back stitch 2 or3 stitches and cut the thread off, then with new thread start all over on the next loop, keep doing this until you get to the end, then back stitch 3 stitches and cut off the excess thread, and that's it, in the picture you're looking at, this is just a piece of scrap leather WC is using to demonstrate the process, all those other lines you see don't have anything to do with what he is trying to get across. If I screwed up on any of this  WC will make any corrections, I'll keep my fingers crossed.

                                               tEN wOLVES 

[Marshal Will Wingam]

Thanks Marshal Will;  I will try it out on my NWMP combination pistol/carbine cartridge belt.  (check out Rattlesnake Jack's thread on carrying .45-75 ammo.)

Here's the link;

http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,23054.msg298037.html#msg298037

Thanks for the link, Sir Charles. That was a good read. I love those musket stocks on the '76 carbines. That makes a great shooter.

Be sure to post a picture of the belt you make. Those combo belts are really interesting.

[cowboywc]

Howdy
Sorry for the confussion in the pix. That was a piece of scrap I did the demo on and it had some test grooves from my adj V gouge.
I will find all the pix in my sewing loops and post them.
WC

[cowboywc]

Howdy All

This is how I learned to lay out the spacing from John Bianchi's holster video
and How I sew bullet loops.

First dampen a piece of scrap leather that's the same as what you're going to make the loops from. Using two straight edges lay the leather over one bullet and force it down with the rulers on each side. Then use a pair of wing dividers to see how wide that space is. That is the spacing you'll mark on the gunbelt.
Now measure the space marked by the two rulers when you lay out the leather flat. That is the spacing to mark on the loop leather.  You multiply that size by the number of bullets you want to have. I put a ¾ inch tab on each end of the loops.
Now I use a 3/32 4 prong chisel punch. I set one prong over the edge of the leather for spacing and punch the holes in the loop leather.
Now lay a very light guide line on the belt the length of the loops. Mark the spacing of the stitch lines with the wing dividers. Lay the loop leather on the guide line and lightly re-punch the loop leather at each stitch line. Use the correct holes for each one. Don't forget to punch one hole above and below the loop leather. After that I go back and finish punching the belt all the way through. If you try to punch all the way through the loop leather and the belt you'll make too big a hole in the loop leather.
The pix are numbered in order.


Now for the sewing.
If I'm doing a lined gunbelt I sew up one line then jump to the next line on the back side. You can jump right across and sew down the next line or jump down to the bottom of the next line and sew up. If I'm sewing an un-lined belt I punch down and across to the bottom of the next line and sew to it. When you do this I suggest you put a stitch groove and run an overstitch wheel over the stitches to push the threads down so the bullets don't hang up on them.
If you have any questions let me know.
WC
http://s394.photobucket.com/albums/pp25/cowboywc/Sewing%20Loops/

[Ten Wolves Fiveshooter]

 
   Thanks Wayne 

          This will be a big help to every one, and Casio you now have it in living color.
     
           Maybe Marshal Will can put this in the FAC/HOW TOO's

                   
                        Thanks again WC 

                           tEN wOLVES 

[cazio]

WC,
Thanks for the pictures that helps big time,  I'll give it a go tonight after work.
Thanks to everyone for all their help and tips.

Robert

[Marshal Will Wingam]

This is a good thread. I suppose it should be merged with our other one on cartridge loops in the FAQ. I'll do so later when I have time.

Later - Great information in both threads. These two topics are now merged so we can find them in the FAQ thread.

[Ten Wolves Fiveshooter]

          Thanks Will 

                                TW 

[Farmer]

anybody know what the spacing(belt and loop) is for 45-70 loops?

Got a request for this but I dont have a cartridge handy!

[Dalton Masterson]

45-70s fit in my 45 Colt loops just fine. Should be the same measurement.
DM

[Ten Wolves Fiveshooter]

Howdy Farmer

  +1

  Dalton is right, your spacing for the 45/70 is the same as 45 long Colt, but it is better to use a wider loop like 1 1/4" to 1 1/2" this gives the bullet more stability on the belt and will help keep the bullets from twisting around, and it still looks good, I prefer the 1 1/2" loop for this. IMHO. You probably already knew that, but I thought for those that didn't , that I would throw this in.

          tEN wOLVES