De-Bluing a Gun to make it more Authentic

[Ozark Iron John]

When did bluing guns start?  Ain't it more authentic to de-blue yer old guns?

I got this offa Authentic-Campaigner:

If your heart is set on debluing an Enfield, try Lysol toilet bowl cleaner. It comes in a plastic bottle with a bent neck on it, and can be found in any grocery store. Squirt some on a rag, and wipe the barrel. The bluing will wipe right off. Then wash the barrel down well with soap and water. Lastly I use a baking soda and water rinse, due to the cleaner being an acid. Best stuff I've used for this purpose, though.

Or use Birchwood Casey's Rust and Blue Remover.  It is available at many gun shops, blackpowder shops, and large mail order and on-line vendors such as DIXIE GUN WORKS.

Is it really that easy?

Don't worry Guns.  I ain't gonna screw up that Enfield without knowing what I'm doing.

[Major 2]

It's that easy ( Birchwood Casey is fast & almost instant )

But, Enfeild's were Blued , however Springfields were Bright finished .

[Ozark Iron John]

Really!?  Morgan's Men and Shelby's Brigade both carried "blued" '58 Two-Band Enfields?  Does everybody concur?

[Nolan Sackett]

When did bluing guns start?

Fire and charcoal bluing go back to the Middle Ages at least - cold rust bluing to the mid 1700's. The hot salt bluing as commonly used today, IIRC is early 20th century (WWI?).

Any acid will de-blue a gun - phosphoric aka naval jelly or hydrochloric aka muriatic acid work very well and are cheap. Just be sure and neutralize the acid afterwards with baking soda and water, club soda, or such. Another method is just scrub away with 4/0 steel wool - this wears away the high spots and leaves the blue in the cracks and crevices.

The color will be a sort of blue grey - the same color more or less that a naturally aged piece will turn after handling (bright finished firearms if not continually polished turn a similar  grey blue if just rubbed down and oiled). But there is a lot more to properly "aging" a piece than just rubbing away the blue.

[Ozark Iron John]

But there is a lot more to properly "aging" a piece than just rubbing away the blue.

Sir, let's ride down that path a piece, if you don't mind.

Had I ought to take a Dremmel to these fabrication markings or not?

[St. George]

'If' you're going to 'de-farb' your firearm - take care that you're very neat about the process.

A Dremel Tool is 'not' the way to do it.

'By hand' is - with varying grades of sandpaper...

'Then - once you've relieved the lettering - you'll need to match 'that' area to the rest of the gun and that will take some time to properly do.

Adding 'wear' to a weapon that would be newly-issued seems like a silly thing to do.

The weapons in use at the time were of new construction - their finish would show 'natural' wear of the same type you'll put on it through use.

Your Impression's weapon isn't 100+ years old - it's been issued/stolen within the past couple of years - depending upon your time frame.
Making it look far older makes it look 'suspect' to the casual eye.

As to 'everybody concurring' - do the research yourself and you'll see what the weapons looked like when they were still in the Arsenal.

Enfields were Blued/Browned and Springfields were finished 'Bright'.

Honest wear through use and campaigning would leave the Enfield's high spots brighter than the rest and the 'Bright' finish of the Springfield would dull from rust and cleaning.
Troopers would sometimes scrub those Springfields with a mixture of wood ashes and water to bring back some of their original finish.

Scouts Out!

[Ozark Iron John]

Thank you sir.  That makes perfect sense.

[Guns Garrett]

Charging ...Charging...

Clear !!!

(Ka-Thump)

We've got sinus rhythm .. he's back

[TIZWIN]

I'm considering de-bluing the cylinder of my Uberti/Cimarron Whitneyville/Hartford Dragoon as I've read that the cylinders of the original Walkers, Whitneyville/Hartfords, and First Model Dragoons were left in the white.  Why, I don't know.  I've had vinegar recommeded as well as the methods mentioned above. 

I've also contacted a couple gunsmiths about drilling the frame of the Whitneyville/Hartford repro so that the trigger and bolt screws pass completely through, not "blind tapped."  The Uberti repro is basically a Walker frame, with a First Model Dragoon cylinder and barrel assembly.  The frame is as on the original Walker, that is, the trigger and bolt screw do not pass through the frame.  Apparently, one of the improvements to the Walker design, in addition to the obvious, was this complete tapping all the way through the frame.  It was to simplify production--supposedly suggested to Sam Colt by the Army's inspector.

[St. George]

The original cylinders were left 'in the white' - you can remove this finish with 'Vanish' - the toilet bowl cleaner - or you could do so by using a steel wool pad and oil.

They weren't finished 'bright' - so given the fact that you'll shoot it - it'll take on its own greyish 'patina' even though you'll clean it.

Early revolvers did feature the blind-tapped holes - but that was done away with by serial number 1215 (Second Model).

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

[Bisbee Bradley]

What modern finish is closest to the original finish on 1858 Remmies? - Blue? Millenium? Charcoal? Case Hardened? White? My Uberti is Millenium. What can I do to make it look more correct finish wise?

[Major 2]

Though I have not done any firearms in the Millennium finish.. I have distressed many a blued firearm for films.
My product of choice is simple white vinegar a soft rag and 0000 steel wool.
I have done complete removal with both Naval Jelly & BD Rust and blue remove...
However with white vinegar I get the control I want ..to just remove the new.... to the well worn well carried .
A hint of Browning solution also works well to age the remaining blue.

I don't recall, whom but someone on this BB did their Millennium's and the photo's were posted.. perhaps some will recall and give you the link or try the search button....

[Mick Archer]

  Howdy Pards!

  The 3rd Model, P1853 Enfields used in the ACW left the British factories with rust-blued barrels, heat blued barrel bands, and color-case hardened lockplates and hammers.
   However, some were "struck bright" before issuance, and some fewer were struck bright in the field.  The exact reason is not known, although sometimes it was to present a more uniform apperance to companies in a regiment where they had a mix of "Springfields" that were burnished bright and "Enfields."  Sometimes it was just what the colonel "liked."

    Typically, the cylinders on the C & B era Colt line were blued as were the barrels, with color-case hardened frames. I have never seen a reference to bright cylinders.

      "Legitmate" wear on revolvers,(or long guns) comes from legitimate use.   And wear type, patterns, an dlocation can be distinctive such as cylinder wear or "holster wear."   While there are some lads with the craft, skills, and tools/chemicals to simulate "wear" that appears natural rather than unnatural or faked, most that I have seen is "tell tale" unnatural.

      IMHO,  the other "extreme" is the somewhat "popular" (in some circles) "original finish" which is not really the finish original to the gun, but rather the type of patina, wear, and "lack of finish" found on some surviving originals were color case hardening has turned to gray and dark, dirty shadows; bluing has turned to plum brown; or metal has turned to dull metalic gray (espeically if someone in the Near or Recent Past decided that the remains of color case hardening was dirty and plum brown was rust- and abraded or buffed everything down to bare metal where it has dulled, started to blacken, or even started to rust and turn brown since the 1960's, 1940's 1930's etc., etc., etc.,
     What this type of treatment does, IMHo, is to create an "antique"  (meaning the gun looks like a modern 100 year old, 150 year old, or 250 year piece- and NOT like it did when the gun was actually being used...)

     Others' mileage, and likes or dislikes in gun appearance, may vary...

     Mick Archer

         

[Marshal Will Wingam]

I may be wrong, but from everything I can gather, the original NMA (1858) Remingtons were blued with case hardened hammer. The look of the case-hardened frame is cool, but it isn't historically correct.

[Mick Archer]

   Howdy Pards!

   Correct...

  The 1858 Beals-Remington Army and Navy had a mottled color-case-hardened hammer with all otehr iron parts being blued, but the loading lever being a brighter blue.

   The Remington Model 1861 (Old Model) Army and Navy, and the Remington Model 1863 (New Model) Army and Navy were the same except that the blue was the same overall.

    Of course, "special finishes" were sometimes produced on individual orders.   I had an original nickel plated M1863 Army once.

    Mick Archer

[Major 2]

Mick

"...Legitimate" wear on revolvers,(or long guns) comes from legitimate use....
that is what I have strived for ... It just does not look right on camera if a Firearm that been used as a tool ,looks like a fresh
from the box .
Of course that is the if the script doesn't call for a new piece.

I have used my technique, of white vinegar to tone down the polished Blue/black of new Reproductions.
To thin it so it looks a tad used and matches the period method of blue somewhat better.
This is strictly, for camera as an Art Director....

I have removed all finish as a necessity after defarbing removing Made in Italy or Black powder only... these were then refinished.

I'm not looking to fake a gun to apppear a 100 year old heirloom , just good honest wear, and the cool thing is I've been payed to do it.