What shotgun would be best

[Pappy Hayes]

THese may have been discussed before so pardon me for asking again. I have not totally worked up a persona yet, by my character is of early 70s. I see myself as ex-calvary captain and now a marshal. What would you recommend for my shotgun? Would the TTN 1878 work?

[Lars]

Check out the Working Cowboy class. It only uses one revolver and one rifle, no shotgun. Many of us prefer it for various reasons -- no need for so many guns, more authentic, can avoid boring shotgun shooting, etc.

Lars

[Wild Ben Raymond]

Lars, said: "can avoid boring shotgun shooting, etc." Hate to disagree with that but, I think the shotgun is the most challanging guns to be able to load & shoot fast on the clock. It really takes a lot of skill & practice to do it well. What may be BORING to one may be anothers favorite. It's whatever floats your boat................. WBR

[Lars]

I think the shotgun is the most challanging guns to be able to load & shoot fast on the clock. It really takes a lot of skill & practice to do it well. What may be BORING to one may be anothers favorite. It's whatever floats your boat................. WBR

Fast loading and shooting at standing targets on the clock is NOT challanging, just boring and worse. Fortunately, NCOWS has a class that uses no shotgun, so, we can skip that kind of shooting.

I do shoot the shotgun at one WAS monthly match because there the shotgun targets are really challanging. It is common that I go home from those shoots with a nice glow because I managed to hit those flying, wobbling, arcing, etc. shotgun targets while shooting more normal stage targets.

One can design fun and challanging shotgun targets into WAS stages, but, I very seldom see them.

Lars

[Trap]

  In a couple of preeceding posts we see two opposing views. Neither one wrong , just different. In the past year it seems that a chasm has been developing in the ranks. Some think it is so wide that a split seems inevitable. But just like the preeceding disagreement, with a little "live and let live" there is room for both in NCOWS. The incorporation of one idea does not eliminate, or even diminish the other. This current administration is very conscience of this and is working to heal this wound. It won't happen overnight. It will take time. But for those of us who believe in the founding principles of NCOWS it will be worth the wait. We will be stronger for it. It will take some patience and cooperation. Hang in there.

[Major Matt Lewis]

Lars, said: "can avoid boring shotgun shooting, etc." Hate to disagree with that but, I think the shotgun is the most challanging guns to be able to load & shoot fast on the clock. It really takes a lot of skill & practice to do it well. What may be BORING to one may be anothers favorite. It's whatever floats your boat................. WBR

Ben,

I have to agree with you.  Once you master the shotgun, you have done something....

[Grizzle Bear]

Okay, let me see if I understand this......

You take a repeating shotgun, that holds, what, 4 or 5 shells, and then due to an arcane and absurd rule learn to shoot it as a single shot, or by loading two at a time, and you then think you are a real gunfighter?

I am obviously missing something here.......


Grizzle Bear

[James Hunt]

Well stated trap!!!! Thanks for that comment. I know most of us feel that way, sometimes it just needs to be put into print, again.

[Pappy Hayes]

As far as shootin or not shootin a shot gun in matches, I just look at another gun to shoot so I am shooting more. I enjoy shooting and that is the main reason I am into this sport. I do not get wrapped up into the speed thing. I just try to shoot as accurate as possible and just shoot. I just want to have one that goes with my persona. More then the one I have now.

[Lars]

  In a couple of preeceding posts we see two opposing views. Neither one wrong , just different. In the past year it seems that a chasm has been developing in the ranks. Some think it is so wide that a split seems inevitable. But just like the preeceding disagreement, with a little "live and let live" there is room for both in NCOWS. The incorporation of one idea does not eliminate, or even diminish the other. This current administration is very conscience of this and is working to heal this wound.

Trap,

Speaking as a newbie (just got my year-2 card last week) I really don't see a serious chasm. Diverse perspectives for sure, diverse preferences even more so. So far, from where I am looking in, that is all to the good. NCOWS sure seems to have enough "room" for all this, probably even more.  I sure would not call this diversity a "wound", but, then maybe I just have not been around the "wounded". Not trying to sound contentious, just present my perspective.

Matt,

I am somewere near Grizzle Bear on this one. Probably even more extreme if you are talking about Win 97s or any pump gun. I would agree that you have "done something", but, clearly, not something I have any desire to do or hold in high regard. But, then I am speaking as a life-long wingshooter -- most other uses of a shotgun are a waste of good shotshells. So far, I detect no interest in NCOWS to incorporate flying, etc. shotgun targets into stages -- so, I chose to shoot WC.

Lars

[Irish Dave]

I couldn't agree more with what Trap has posted. He has hit the nail right on the head.

Yes, NCOWS has rules and they must be enforced. But within those rules there is room for all to play the game and enjoy their Old West passion. If we are going to grow this organization in a healthy and vibrant way, we are all going to have to realize that we each play for different reasons, but that's just fine. No "us vs. them" attitudes should have a place in our outfit.

We have everything we need -- from Smokeless Shootist on the one hand to Working Cowboy and the Originals on the other. If a pard can't find something there or in all the classes in between, well, I don't think he/she is looking very hard.

So whether its 1 or 2 SA or DA revolvers, rifles, shotguns, pocket pistoils, buff guns, black powder or smokeless, male or female, youth or adult, NCOWS does have something for you.

[Books OToole]

Pappy;

If you make it down to the KVC 2 gun Regional, I will let you try out my TTN coach gun. (or is that TNN or TNT or...)

Books

[Ottawa Creek Bill]

Yes, a SxS double w/outside hammers would be appropriate for that time period, either percussion or shotshell.

Pappy,
Like RCJ said, get yourself a double with hammers, they add something to the era that the other shotguns don't, especially the pumps, unless you are looking for speed, or doing a "Wild Bunch" impression. The TTN looks to be a real good copy of the Colt, but stay away from the Russian shotguns....even the one that Remington is importing, crappy.

I don't know what your financial situation is, but if you look around around you can still get an American original in good shape for under a $1000.00, and usually closer to $500.00-$600.00. At the 1500 Gun & Knife Show held up in Indianapolis, there are a lot of originals in great shape in that price range.

Bill

[Two Flints]

I assume from this discussion that my Spencer pump shotgun is not allowed.  I am using
2 5/8 black powder shells with it.

Two Flints

[Grizzle Bear]

Sure it is, Two Flints.

We're just havin' a little discussion amongst ourselves.....

Like Lars, I don't see shooting "sitting ducks" with a shotgun as much of a test of your shooting skill, no matter how fast you can do it.

And I have always been bothered by the idea that people using a repeating shotgun should only be allowed to load two rounds.  I say, load it full, on the clock, and go to blastin'!

As we have prohibited the "two-by-two" shotgun belts, as well as slides, I don't think a shooter using a repeater has that big of an advantage over a shooter with a side-by-side.  If they do, so be it.  I'll keep using a double just because I like them better.

(I own a '97.  Ain't fired it in years.)

Grizzle Bear

[Pappy Hayes]

RCJ

I shoot RM 60 Army conversion and Open TOP and plan to add the new Cimarron 2nd Model to my collection. For lever action I shoot 66 Yellowboy. So I am not wanting to shoot percussion in my shot gun.

OCB

   I have thought about trying to find an original hammered sidebyside, but have heard some off the barrels will not handle modern shot shells. I am not smart enough about guns to know how to tell or know which ones to stay away from.

[Ottawa Creek Bill]

Pappy,
If you are going to be using the Holy Black, and you can find an old original in good shape, you probably will be OK. If you are purchasing one from a reputable dealer, he should let you get it checked out by a competent gunsmith of your choosing. I've had to do this in the past until I felt comfortable enough and gained the experience to check them my self.
I've even had the opportunity of soldering a set of barrels together, of which I don't plan on doing again Most dealers will let you have it checked out if you put a deposit down on the gun. This aplies to a used firearm only.

Bill

[Pappy Hayes]

Thanks OCB. I will start keeping my eyes open for an original. Will bp subsitutes work ok? I have planned to start using bp substitue in my revolvers and lever action. I have not switched because I do not have any reloading equipment yet. I figured after I have all my guns, that would be the next thing I work towards. There are a couple of places I have found carry either bp cartridges or use a substitue. What do you shoot with?

[Lars]

Pappy Hayes,

I have long used Pyrodex and 777 FFG in old 12 and 16 gauge shotguns, along with Goex now and then. Really hard to tell the difference down range. There is some difference in cleaning, with 777 being much easier.

What you will want to be sensitive to is how original the chambers, forcing cones and bores are, especially if you wish to use the old time card and fiber wads. The reason for this is that the old guns initially had forcing cones and bores that were designed for use with card and fiber wads, either in paper or thin brass hulls. Often the bores of old shotguns have been reamed to remove pitts, often making they too large in ID for same gauge (12 gauge in 12s, 16 gauge in 16s) card and fiber wads to seal the bores properly. The consequence is that patterns suffer, sometimes really badly. The use of thin brass hulls, which take 11 or 10 gauge wads for 12 gauge hulls and 14 or 15 gauge wads for 16 gauge, may aleviate this problem. Lengthening the forcing cones drastically, a common source of income for gunsmiths, may also degrade the gun ability to give good patterns with card and fiber wads.

IF you should end up with a gun having reamed barrels and giving poor patterns with card and fiber wads, you can likely get decent, even good patterns, using modern one-peice plastic wads.

If you have not already, check Republic Metallic Cartridge, Co. (www.republicmetallic.com) for some really excellent, authentic BP shotshells.

Lars

[Wild Ben Raymond]

Grizzly Bear, If you & others are so bothered by the fact that the rules state that repeaters can only load two at a time, change the rule! It won't matter to me because I'll keep loading mine two at a time. I'm faster that way. As far as using flying targets unless the stage is about some hunting flying game scenario it don't fit into the old west. Why do you think the law officers of the day used shotguns when confronted by a mob or multiple outlaws at close range? Because they did a lot of damage & you didn't have to aim with the precision of a rifle or pistol shot. A stage I'd like to see would be to have several knockdown targets bunched closely together (So that they overlap each other). When you get to the shotgun part of the stage, using the required number of shells written on the stage (Say it was 4) try and hit & knock down as many as possible. If you knock down 4 out of 4 shots then that's clean, but if it's 3 out of 4 then it's one miss, and if you got 5 or 6 out of 4 each additional target would be a 5 sec. Bonus. Just my thoughts on this. Wild Ben Raymond