Uberti '58 Remington Carbine 44 Rem. Conversion

[Halfway Creek Charlie]

I finished my 44 Rem. conversion of my Uberti Rem Carbine this weekend.
Thought you might like to see it after I reblued the whole frame to get rid of the Plum color.
The Kirst 44 Rem Conversion cylinder was hand fit to remove .018 off the length to fit the Uberti Carbine and a Euroarms '58 Rem.  it actually fits and functions  better in the Carbine, so that is where it will live. I relieved the forearm to allow it and the ejector both to be used.

Left


Right


Closeup of the Conversion cylinder and ejector arrangement

[willyboy]

SWEEEET!

[Marshal Will Wingam]

Looks great, pard. I don't know if I would stick my hand out there when I pull the trigger, though.

[Waterloo St. Clair]

Looks great!  The fore stock might be too much of a temptation for me though.  I might forget what I'm shooting and use it. 

[Halfway Creek Charlie]

Yepper it is a temptation to use the forearm, but I won't.

Marshall, i ran into the same thing you did with the void in the casting when I was cutting the port. haven't had that problem with the two Pietta's I ported, but sure di have it happen on this frame.  too deep to clean completely, so I broke out the JB Weld and now it hardly noticeable. I have 2 Euroarms to port and I'll report back on how those go. Hopefully no voids.

[Marshal Will Wingam]

I didn't have any voids in the casting on mine. I recall someone was mentioning that, but I don't remember who it was.

[Yankee John]

I had a void in the 2005-dated Pietta that I put my Kirst Konvertor into.  As I was grinding further down on the recoil shield, it just would not go away. I cut my losses and stopped after a point.

It was pretty small, about the size of a pinhead, but not welcome all the same. You can see it in this pic.

I am thinking about having my brother TIG-weld up the recoil shield and regrinding it back into proper shape...

John

[Halfway Creek Charlie]

Marshall,
OOPS! I thought you had a void and it must have been John. Anyway it appears to happen across the MFR. board when it happens.

I cut the port in my newer Euroarms '58 for the ne 44 Rem. Gated Kirst last night with a dremel tool. Wow! how much easier than the way I cut the previous ports with a rattail file.  Anyway no voids in this piece at all and the dremel made the job a quicker one. Thei Kirst is the Uberti 44 Rem. and it dropped right into the Euroarms '58 and the alignment was perfect, every chamber, every time around.

I recieved the Euroarms '58 from the auction a couple weeks ago, yesterday. only boo-boo- on it is a cylinder line. This pistol was proofed in 1973 (XX9). It is unfired (bore and chambers full of cosmolene type grease) and does not appear to have been dry fired, but the line is there on the cyl., So may have been but no damage to nipples.  It has nice figured grips and of good color.

Euroarms has made some improvements in the ensuing years. The older "58 has the old rammer retainer that looks like a wedge(Oldem's post of the Euroarms '58 Navy) instead of the ones like the newer Pietta's and Uberti's and Euroarms. Also this Cylinder doesn't have chamfered chamber mouths. I have not slugged the bbl yet, nor mic'd the chambers. The cylinder has different stop slots than the newer ones. Glad to know that Euroarms is making improvements as they go.

I dropped the Kirst Conversion into the oldest Euroarms and it also came into battery correctly, Aligned properly, but the bolt needs just a swipe ot two of a stone to just narrow it to engage into the Kirst cylinder easily. It is just the smallest amount to wide to engage properly. But I have not stoned the internals of this pistol yet.

[Marshal Will Wingam]

I dropped the Kirst Conversion into the oldest Euroarms and it also came into battery correctly, Aligned properly, but the bolt needs just a swipe ot two of a stone to just narrow it to engage into the Kirst cylinder easily. It is just the smallest amount to wide to engage properly. But I have not stoned the internals of this pistol yet.

My Kirst did this and I took quite a bit off the bolt. It would lock up at test operation, but would skip the notch when cocked at CAS speeds. I didn't want to take too much off and get the bolt sloppy at lockup so I finally cut ramps into the cylinder like a Colt and that completely corrected the problem.

[sundance44`s]

The drop in cylinder i got from R&D was the same way ... the bolt locking notches are kind of small and shallow compared to the cap & Ball cylinders , i thought about cutting releif on the notches like marshal did , but ended up doing the work on the lock up bolt since i have many spares to work with .. anyway 3 times in with the stone and it locks up  smooth and fast now . ....Marshal don`t they call those race groves ya cut into the cylinder . anyway i figured the bolts come cheaper than the cylinders ..

[Marshal Will Wingam]

The drop in cylinder i got from R&D was the same way ... the bolt locking notches are kind of small and shallow compared to the cap & Ball cylinders , i thought about cutting releif on the notches like marshal did , but ended up doing the work on the lock up bolt since i have many spares to work with .. anyway 3 times in with the stone and it locks up  smooth and fast now . ....Marshal don`t they call those race groves ya cut into the cylinder . anyway i figured the bolts come cheaper than the cylinders ..

I don't know what they call them, but they're sure effective. I took a whole pile off with a stone and got great lockup, but it would still skip over the notch when I really pulled the hammer back fast. At any rate, it sure works good now.

[sundance44`s]

I got to say colt was on to something with the groves in front of the notches ..it seems the older the remmies get the quicker the lock up gets , makes my older ones hard to part with , just plain smooth from years of wear .

[Halfway Creek Charlie]

I went the "clean up the Bolt" route. I measured the slots in the C & B cylinder of the 1973 Euroarms '58 Rem. and they measure .154-.155. width.The Slots on the Kirst cylinders (both the cutdown Pietta and the Uberti, measure .150-.151 width. The lockup portion of the bolt measrued .153-.154 tapered back(hammer end) to front (bbl end). Slots in all three are milled straight. I stoned the lockup portion of the bolt to .148-.149.  Now all three cylinders swap into this pistol and lock up strong no matter how fast the hammer is cocked. The C & B cylinder has the very slightest of wiggle(.002-,003) in lock up but not enough to mis-align the chamber and the bore. The best news is that in both the Euroarms the C & B Cylinders and both the cutdown Pietta and the Uberti Kirsts swap and align perfectly! I am Jazzed about that!.

Now I have 3 '58 Rem. in 44 Rem. Cal. Conversions (1 Drop-In (right now), and 2 that can be Full or Drop-in conversions) that can use both conversion cylinders and the C & B Cylinders also. I still need one more Kirst Uberti 44 Rem. Konverter to make them all full conversions if I want. 2 Euroarms '58 Remihgtons and An Uberti '58 Rem. Carbine.


I am a HAPPY CAMPER!!!

[Marshal Will Wingam]

I got to say colt was on to something with the groves in front of the notches ..it seems the older the remmies get the quicker the lock up gets , makes my older ones hard to part with , just plain smooth from years of wear.

Doesn't that just prove the wisdom of hanging on to Remmies?

The best news is that in both the Euroarms the C & B Cylinders and both the cutdown Pietta and the Uberti Kirsts swap and align perfectly! I am Jazzed about that!.

That's great. You were successful on all of 'em. Now THAT'S the way to do it.

The notches on my Kirst cylinder varied several thousandths from notch to notch. After taking a whole bunch off the bolt, there were two chambers that would lock up solid and two that would over-rotate every time. I didn't want to make the bolt so small I couldn't put the BP cylinder in if I wanted, so I cut the ramps. No problem.

[willyboy]

That forearm looks familiar...could he have modified it from a Moisen Nagant rifle?

[Major 2]

nope

[Halfway Creek Charlie]

OK I'm in love! I took the carbine to my indoor range(15 Yds.) shooting 5 grn Trail Boss in 44 Colt brass and the 44 Rem 248 Grn bullets. Windage was dead on! holding the first 5 at 6:00 on the bull I was in the top of the black or the first white ring away from the bull on 100 yd Military official target. Second 5 were all in the black holding 6:00 on the first white ring out fron the bull. Third 5 were all in the black holding just about 1/2 white ring below previous 5. 4th 5 were in the black. (I misstated this in original message I meant black and said ten ring, sorry.)

The first 20 shot out of this carbine EVER! , and all in the black with 2 or three in the first white ring. All  offhand. and in a shooting booth with 3 walls one in front cut out to shoot thru and 2 side walls 3 feet apart. I got NO flash, unburnt powder or anything from having the cylinder that close to my face. 
This carbine loves the hand fitted Pietta Conversion cylinder and Trail Boss powder. I was totally amazed. Rear sight was as low as I could get it on the ramp (long flat). So it appears this is dead on at 25 yds in the lowest (long flat) of the sight using the notch to sight with. I will widen that notch some to better see the sight picture.

I also shot my two Euroarms '58's with the conversion cylinders. Newer one, New Uberti Gated Conversion cylinder, windage is dead on. 6:00 hold on the bull produced 5 shots about 1/2 bull high at 15 yds. which tells me it will be dead on at 25 yds. Next 15 shots were the same place with the same hold. to get a good group. I know I can move this group where I want it easily by holding different. All Shots off hand, two hand hold. 5 Grns Trail Boss, 248 Grn. 44 Rem. Newer Euroarms loves the Yberti Kirst Konvertor1 and trail boss. this I'll back off to 4.5-4.75 next time out to see if all three like that load I got . It loves the Uberti Kirst Konvertor.\

1973 Euroarms '58 Rem. HATES the new Uberti Kirst Konvertor, Misfires, light strikes in the first five shots. those that fired hit the same area as the newer one, but I was so exasperated at the lightstrikes /misfires I swapped out the Uberti Kirst for handfitted Pietta into the 1973. Next 15 shots were flawless and 1/2 bull high at 15 yds like the newer one. The 1973 LOVES the hand fitted Pietta.  I'll work on getting the 1973 to like the Uberti and figure out the light strikes/misfires. Actully I had only one light strike., There is a slight timing problemwhere the trigger engages the 1/2 cock position when fired. the 1/2 cock notch may be to high or not rounded enough to allow the tigger to pass. Got all week to figure this out and get the 1973 to like the Uberti Kirst better.

All in all a pretty good shooting session!.

[sundance44`s]

Dragoon i ended up haveing to do the stoneing on my cylinder notches like Marshal sugested .. the stoneing i had done on the bolt was just fine at the house but at the range , it skipped again last week , just once in a while .. but i did the work on the cylinder notches and tested it today with 50 rounds .. and no problem ... sure thought i had enough off the bolt . but under the stress of actual fire . it wasn`t ... a little dab of cold blue around the notches , and ya would never know . i didn`t go deep just a light stoneing where the colts have the groves . she`s fast and smooth now ..

[Halfway Creek Charlie]

None of the three skip the bolt. all align properly. the problem with the new Uberti Kirst in the 1973 Euroarms turned out to be only the hand not fitting into the pawl, one of the things the paperwork from Kirst tells how to fix.  The new Uberti Kirst is in the 1973 and working properly tonight and I'm not having the hangup problem, seems the hand skipped(for lack of a better term) over the pawl flat or didn't lean in enough towards the Cylinder pin/centerline of the pistol. I fixed that this evening and now I can spin the cylinder in 1/2 cock position. The hand bound the recoilshield and canted it just enough to cause the one misfire or the light strikes. Before I had to pull the hammer back a bit of 1/2 cock to rotate the cylinder. That affected the fall of the hammer /trigger disengagement timing.
Works fine now, but it'll be next Sat before I can shoot it again to be sure.

Two excellent shooters today out of three and the third one shot well when it worked like it should, with the Gated Kirst. It worked super with the hand fitted Pietta convertor in it.
I am jazzed,........

And the Carbine..........did i say .....I love it....It has a home for life. I am totally blown away how well it shoots and how well I can hold and shoot it, and no problen with the gas flash between the forcing cone and chamber mouths.  I opened the notch in the buckhorn rear sight and I can see the front sight better. Boy holding like you should, my hands are small enough my little finger fits into the ring on the end of the TG, two fingers and the thumb wrapped around the wrist, Offhand placed in the hook on the bottom of the tg between thumb and forefinger with the forefinger and the other three fingers claspin the right hand. that is a very strong hold to shoot the carbine, it just locks it in place.  You don't even think about using the forearm after a few shots. It just becomes the natural way to hold the carbine.

[Major 2]

Glad it worked out , for you (Bob is pleased to)
I also helped Triggersmith trade for one... 

I think he also is going to put a forestock on his, I send him some parts to do it.