New Henry to be Introduced!!

[Fox Creek Kid]

I was told by Taylor's today that this year they will have un Uberti factory "Improved Henry", i.e. with a side loading gate and get this: A SMALL WOODEN FOREARM!!!    It's probably based on the original Briggs patent Improved Henry that had a small metal forearm.

[Will Ketchum]

Fox Creek, that is interesting!

I know I saw a picture one time of a Henry with forearms much like those on a Winchester 87.  They were 2 slabs that were screwed to the metal between the barrel and the magazine.   I have looked and looked but can't find it again.

Perhaps the one you refer to was it.  But I don't recall it having the loading gate, although I have seen Henry's pictured that did have it.

Will Ketchum

[Fox Creek Kid]

If you scroll down here you will see a Briggs patent Winchester that went for over $200K!!  Only six are known of.

http://www.maineantiquedigest.com/articles/lilj0898.htm

[Will Ketchum]

Thanks Kid, but that isn't the rifle I was thinking of.  Like I said above it had the forearm screwed right to the spacer between the barrel and the magazine.

I have been wanting to do that to mine but I want to find one to document it first.

Will Ketchum

[Trap]

  Just a guess here.
  Only 6 known, not commercially available.
  Probably not NCOWS acceptable.
                                                     jt

[Dakota Widowmaker]

If someone were to modify theirs to look like that, I would still consider it a "Henry".

I was discussing offline with another shooter/looter the idea of allowing 1966 rifles to participate.

They were technically known as "The Improved Henry" in literature.

But, they have more in common with the 1873 than they do the Henry.

I am actually more inclined to allow the NY manufactured Henry Repeating Arms Company products than I am the 1866.
(based on the fact that its not a side loader and has a brass frame...and its made in America)

[this post is not meant to be the start of a flame war...HRAC ownership is not what this part of the board is about]

[Ottawa Creek Bill]

Dakota Widow Maker said:

I am actually more inclined to allow the NY manufactured Henry Repeating Arms Company products than I am the 1866.
(based on the fact that its not a side loader and has a brass frame...and its made in America)

Well,
You're gonna have to come up with a better reason then that. The Uberti 1866 is a copy of an actual rifle, where as the new HRAC henry is not even close, its a new design of nothing that has been manufactured before. And, they should have never used that name....

Bill

[Marshal Will Wingam]

I did a search to see if there were any 1860 Henrys out there that were converted to side loading other than the few factory prototypes. I didn't find any. Were any of these done by factory or independent gunsmiths after they were first sold? What I'm wondering is whether they were in common use after the Civil War. Has anyone found any examples of Henry conversions in the marketplace?

[Fox Creek Kid]

Go here & scroll down. Try not to drool. 

http://www.rarewinchesters.com/gunroom/1860/model_60.shtml

[St. George]

This - quoted from George Madis' 'The Winchester Book' - long considered to be the 'bible' of the Winchester Collector.

From Chapter 7:

"Various loading methods were developed and patented in 1865 and 1866.  James D. Smith of Bridgeport patented his hinged loading gate located at the bottom of the receiver, on February 27, 1866.
Another type of loading system which was developed was the Briggs Patent device for which Patent number 58937 was granted on October 16, 1866.  A sliding fore end,  often of brass, exposes a loading port in the magazine tube.  A modified system of essentially the same construction was used for the arms which have a sliding magazine tube.
as far as is known, no arms using these devices were sold commercially, and each gun differs from the other specimens in many features.  Receivers of the Briggs models are of the same type as were used for the first model of 1866 having King's improvement, and have serial numbers in the 13,500 series, while earliest arms having King's improvement bear serial numbers in the 12,000 series.
Exactly why Winchester purchased and made arms with the Briggs patent loading system is not known, especially since the superior King's improvment preceded the Briggs, but it is likely that Winchester wanted to eliminate the possibility of a rival manufacturer using it."

The suggested reason behind Winchester's purchase of that patent is most likely valid.
The firearms trade was getting fiercely competitive and larger manufacturers would either purchase smaller ones (especially those with usable patents but no capital) or would drive them under.

As to the HRAC version 'Henry' - as has been said - it's a copy of something that never existed - and its place of manufacture has zero bearing on anything.
They should never have used the name 'Henry' as it intimates a relationship with the original - but maybe that's exactly why they did it....

As to the Model 1866 being more like the Model 1873 - sure - when you think that both use a lever system and have a wooden fore end and they're 'shaped' similarly, they have a lot in common, since the Model 1866 was Winchester's distinct 'product improvement' version of the Henry and eventual changes in manufacturing would see it develop into the Model 1873.

As to the question that started this - 'in common use' would apply - and they just weren't.

Scouts Out!

[Troublesome River]

Have seen the picture in the new taylor's catalog. Very nice! I'd read before about a transitional model Henry but had never seen a picture

[Marshal Will Wingam]

Go here & scroll down. Try not to drool. 

http://www.rarewinchesters.com/gunroom/1860/model_60.shtml

Drool. Drool. Drool.

Thanks for the link, Kid

Thanks for the input, St George.

I have often thought about making a transitional model. Sounds like it may not be necessary, now.

[Big Hext]

Howdy,

Sounds like a really cool rifle.  Isn't great that we keep getting more and more options?
The 76, Spencer, this rifle.. wow!
And what great information from St. George and Fox Creek Kid.

I'm not sure why NCOWS rule issues are dragged out here, especially unbidden..  Common usage is a dangerous phrase, in my opinion, because even the minimalist Working Cowboy class is still a gun too many.  As far as I'm concerned, if a shooter can create a persona that credibly uses this rifle, it is welcome.

Adios,

[Will Ketchum]

Howdy,

Sounds like a really cool rifle.  Isn't great that we keep getting more and more options?
The 76, Spencer, this rifle.. wow!
And what great information from St. George and Fox Creek Kid.

I'm not sure why NCOWS rule issues are dragged out here, especially unbidden..  Common usage is a dangerous phrase, in my opinion, because even the minimalist Working Cowboy class is still a gun too many.  As far as I'm concerned, if a shooter can create a persona that credibly uses this rifle, it is welcome.

Adios,

Well Pard these days we can't assume that any gun is legal in either SASS or NCOWS.  They now have to be approved by the powers that be in both organizations.

I could easily come up with a persona that might have such a rifle.  He is a salesman for Winchester with a salesman's sample who is traveling to show it to prospective buyers.  For me that would be good enough but I doubt that it would satisfy the people who decide these things.

Will Ketchum

[Big Hext]

Well Pard these days we can't assume that any gun is legal in either SASS or NCOWS.  They now have to be approved by the powers that be in both organizations.

I could easily come up with a persona that might have such a rifle.  He is a salesman for Winchester with a salesman's sample who is traveling to show it to prospective buyers.  For me that would be good enough but I doubt that it would satisfy the people who decide these things.

Will Ketchum

OF course you're right.. there is a lot of changing going on in the umbrella organizations.  Some for the good, some for the bad and all based on our own perception.  At the club level, things are reforming as well and it's much more free-form.

I think that we should be appreciative of the choices we have of authentic firearms.  If someone asks about their legality, then its a valid issue.

I'm thinking about adopting the personal of Teddy Roosevelt.. he's rich, he's the Pres and he loves guns.  He'd have anything he wants, as soon as it comes out.   Of course, I ain't rich.. and I ain't the POTUS.. least I love guns. 

Adios,