Say it ain't so...

[Gaucho]

In the second or third paragraph of Elmer Kelton's novel The Day the Cowboys Quit, Kelton states that most cowboys didn't own pistols... okay, I can buy that, but he later states that half couldn't shoot themselves in the foot if they tried. I certainly hope he was only trying to make a point, considering out on the frontier, in any time, from the early colonies to parts of Alaska and Nothern Canada today, men posessed arms for the sheer necessity of hunting, at the very least. I can't imagine most men would not know how to shoot even a bit. Am I alone in my thoughts?

[Fly Cop Fry]

I think Kelton probably has it right.

I think you probably have it right also.

How can this be?

Kelton was talking about pistols and most cowboys not having one nor being able to shoot one very well.

Your talking about rifles and shotguns for hunting which they did shoot well. I'm of that breed, shoot a rifle and shotgun good but have had so little experience with a handgun that I'm almost as bad as Kelton says.

That my take on it anyway.

[Gaucho]

I figured as much was probably true. Thanks.

[Cyrille]

Hyer's mah too cent worth. I figgur thet it waz mostly desparados 'n lawmen thet hed ta bee good with pistols  'r they wouldn't bee 'round long. Th reguler cowpuncher, sod-buster, rancher, etc. carried a six-gun cause everyboddy else did 'n it waz kinda expected. Least ways thas what I waz brought up ta believe.
                                                            R.A.T.242

[Gaucho]

Well, I do remember one passage in a L'amour book (the Daybreakers, I believe) where he said cowboys carried pistols to shoot their horses in case they fell off but had their leg caught in the stirrup. Sounds feasable, I suppose, but I don't know for a surety. It also seems that cowboys, according to an article in a book I read, who did own and carry pistols often used a cross-draw for comfort while in the saddle (as seen in Lonesome Dove on almost all the characters) rather than for speed. Just another tidbit, but all-in-all I appreciate the information and comments.

[St. George]

Most men relied on their long gun as it was handier and easier to actually hit something with at a distance.

In that time, accuracy counted - and the 'average' man could pick up a rifle with relatively little experience and still be able to use it - whereas a revolver took some time and ammunition expenditure to master.

Remember - a lot of the mystique of the American Cowboy comes from the celluloid heros of the 'John Ford Reference Library' and bears but little resemblance to the actuality of the Frontier West.

As the West was tamed and the Indians weren't the threat that they had been - the need for a sidearm waned somewhat.

Prior to that time - they were in wide use and were carried and used - though to what effect will forever remain unclear.

If you want to see how they 'really' carried their revolvers - look to the Time-Life series on 'The Old West' and to other period photography and not to the TV and Movies.

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

[Silver Creek Slim]

There is much logic in the replies. Case in point, I grew up hunting with a .22 LR Winchester pump. I could shoot the eye outta a squirrel with it. (Don't think I can do that anymore.) I didn't shoot pistols because my dad didn't own any. I bought my first pistol when I was about 34, which was a couple years before I got into CAS. I rarely miss a rifle target in a CAS match, but tend to miss more than my share of pistol targets. It took a year of CAS matches to shoot my first clean stage. Yes, I said, "stage."

Slim

[Russ T Chambers]

There is much logic in the replies. Case in point, I grew up hunting with a .22 LR Winchester pump. I could shout the eye outta a squirrel with it. (Don't think I can do that anymore.) I didn't shoot pistols because my dad didn't own any. I bought my first pistol when I was about 34, which was a couple years before I got into CAS. I rarely miss a rifle target in a CAS match, but tend to miss more than my share of pistol targets. It took a year of CAS matches to shoot my first clean stage. Yes, I said, "stage."

Slim

Slim
Everyone in Roop County knows I've got a loud voice, but I doubt even I could "shout the eye out a squirrel" at any distance.

Gottcha

[Silver Creek Slim]

  I fixed it. 

Slim

[Russ T Chambers]

 

[ColonelFlashman]

No if this had any real truth behind it, then explain why Townes passed those laws to disarm Cowmen when they came into towne during & after Trail Drives.
They might not have had the latest Hogleg, but usually they had something, small calibre Pocket Pistole, an old Percussion smoke-wheel or a cartridge conversion.
Mostly kept in a saddle bag or locked up in the Chuck-wagon during the drive.

[Arcey]

No if this had any real truth behind it, then explain why Townes passed those laws to disarm Cowmen when they came into towne during & after Trail Drives.

Probably to keep drunks from doing damage to personal property, innocent by-standers and each other...........................

..

[ColonelFlashman]

That's my point, because if the Cowmen weren't packing iron of some sort on there hips or in pockets in the place & causing trouble w/ them, those laws wouldn't have been passed.

[Fly Cop Fry]

No if this had any real truth behind it, then explain why Townes passed those laws to disarm Cowmen when they came into towne during & after Trail Drives.
They might not have had the latest Hogleg, but usually they had something, small calibre Pocket Pistole, an old Percussion smoke-wheel or a cartridge conversion.
Mostly kept in a saddle bag or locked up in the Chuck-wagon during the drive.

I tend to agree with what you say ColonelFlashman but your talking a different time in history than the period in the novel The Day The Cowboys Quit. What you are saying was probably true of those cowboys that were on the Trail Drives after the Civil War. They probably DID have a hand gun with them on the trail and as you say it was most likely in their saddlebag or the wagon until they got to town. Once they got to town their exuberance and poor shooting skills were not looked upon favorably by townies and laws were passed to remove the danger.
The Day The Cowboys Quit  is placed some 20-25 years after the Trail Drive days and what Kelton described was probably more the rule.

[Gaucho]

I tend to agree with what you say ColonelFlashman but your talking a different time in history than the period in the novel The Day The Cowboys Quit. What you are saying was probably true of those cowboys that were on the Trail Drives after the Civil War. They probably DID have a hand gun with them on the trail and as you say it was most likely in their saddlebag or the wagon until they got to town. Once they got to town their exuberance and poor shooting skills were not looked upon favorably by townies and laws were passed to remove the danger.
The Day The Cowboys Quit  is placed some 20-25 years after the Trail Drive days and what Kelton described was probably more the rule.

Yes, I do believe the story takes place in 1883.

Other than that, I realize that TV and movies do not offer extremely accurate portrayals of late nineteenth century living, and that cowboys were not what we see in John Wayne or Clint Eastwood. However, I was concerned about Kelton's statement as to the shooting skills of cowboys because I assumed he was referring to abilities with all firearms, to include the rifle, a staple of any frontier. Understandably (I hope) that didn't seem quite right to me, the American heritage of weapons usage being what it is. But I appreciate the clarifying comments and discourse, and thank all who participated (and may continue to do so at their own pleasure). Keep your powder dry.

[Fly Cop Fry]

No if this had any real truth behind it, then explain why Townes passed those laws to disarm Cowmen when they came into towne during & after Trail Drives.
They might not have had the latest Hogleg, but usually they had something, small calibre Pocket Pistole, an old Percussion smoke-wheel or a cartridge conversion.
Mostly kept in a saddle bag or locked up in the Chuck-wagon during the drive.

I wanted to add one other thing to my reply of yesterday concerning town ordinances to disarm cowboys, or anyone for that matter, but thought I'd check a couple of facts before sticking my foot too far in my mouth.
The two shipping towns best known to us were Abilene & Dodge, KS and both did pass such ordinances - I think. My guess is that a lot of the townie thinking behind this was their recent experience in eastern Kansas during the Border War leading up to the Civil War plus William Clarke Quantrill's raids. They were probably oversitive to people shooting up their town.

I also ran across the bit of info at The Handbook of Texas Online

"All told, contract drovers accounted for as much as 90 percent of total trail traffic between 1866 and 1890, the rest being moved by those who had actually raised the animals.

A herd delivered by contract drovers typically consisted of as many as 3,000 head and employed about eleven persons.. ..Little of the work was glamorous. Most days were uneventful; a plodding, leisurely pace of ten to fifteen miles a day allowed cattle to graze their way to market in about six weeks. Drudgery was occasionally punctuated with violent weather, stampedes, dangerous river crossings, and, rarely, hostile Indians. Even so, few trail bosses allowed youthful waddies to carry pistols, which were prone to discharge and stampede cattle. The gun-totin' image of cowboys owes more to Hollywood than to history."

I added the underlining, this may contradict my answer of yesterday that most of the trail drive cowboys had guns in saddlebags or wagon - then again maybe not. I might also add that the Hollywood image is of those on the trail, NOT those that raised the animals - the vast majority of working cowboys.

[Frenchie]

Well, I do remember one passage in a L'amour book (the Daybreakers, I believe) where he said cowboys carried pistols to shoot their horses in case they fell off but had their leg caught in the stirrup. Sounds feasable, I suppose, but I don't know for a surety. It also seems that cowboys, according to an article in a book I read, who did own and carry pistols often used a cross-draw for comfort while in the saddle (as seen in Lonesome Dove on almost all the characters) rather than for speed. Just another tidbit, but all-in-all I appreciate the information and comments.

I'm posting this because I think too much  . Over a decade of studying the how's, why's and wherefore's of soldiers and soldiering in the 1860s has taught me to question anything that begins, "They did thus-and-such, because..." and I figure that works for cowboys and their firearms too.

Disclaimer: Kids, don't try this at home   

If I fall off my horse and my foot is caught in the stirrup, where's my gun most likely to be? On the ground somewhere behind me, unless it's in a full-flap holster or has a retaining loop, in which case I have to fumble it out while bouncing along over rocks, cacti, and whatever. This assumes I didn't get knocked silly when I hit the ground in the first place. Let's say I get my hogleg out and manage to shoot the horse - where? In his belly, because that's all I can see or reach from where I am on the ground. That's not going to drop him, not soon anyway, but it will most likely make him take off like a scalded cat. L'Amour was a novelist, not an historian - facts weren't a priority for him.

And a cross-draw is more comfortable on horseback, obviously, but for me, at least, it's also more natural and faster than a strong-side draw. I must be in the minority there since most people have strong-side rigs.

Anyway, jus' thinkin' too much ag'in 

[Guns Garrett]

Look at some of the conteporary or researched accounts of shootings, "shootouts", and "gunfights" of the era and sometimes several dozen rounds are fired, at close range ( like less than 20 yds) and few killed, or even wounded.  Sometimes the fight ended not because someone was "taken out", but because they ran out of ammo!  Occasionally these progressed to knives and fists.

[Ed Clintwood]

Frenchie,
I'm with you, I like cross draw and that's the one I go for first, then it's the strong side, 'cause where else you gonna carry a 2nd gun?