New Project-1860 Richards 1st. Model Conversion, photos posted

[Ottawa Creek Bill]

I've started a new 1860 1st. Model Conversion for myself: I have the Cylinder, Recoil ring and new cylinder pin made, chambered and fitted to the frame. I'll post some photos here later today to show what I have done so far and more as the revolver progressess.
Here are some photos, I made them big so you could see the detail. The blue on the metal is layout ink (Dykem).

Bill

[Ottawa Creek Bill]

Seth,
Yes I make my own cylinders. You could use a percussion cylinder and I have in the past. I like to make my own because I can make them a little heaver and make them out of armory steel. I think most of the Italian cylinders are cast as are the cylinder pins. If you look at the face of the cylinder you can see how much thicker the outside walls are. These are made from 4150 steel. The engraving can be done by R&D, and Walt Kirst is going to start doing it also. The recoil ring is made on my mill, a rotary table and indexer is a must. The rotary table is used to mill down the sides of the ring so the integral sight is made into it. The rotary indexer is used to cut the cylinder stops in the cylinder. I make all my own holding fixtures and for me that is the most enjoyment.

Bill

[Fox Creek Kid]

Bill, I remember Kenny Howell telling me in person at the 2000 NCOWS convenmtion about the need for fixtures in order to mill the frame for the ring. He said it was nigh onto impossible to do so w/o it.

[Major 2]

Fine !
now I gotta get the 'putter fixed...
Just drooled all over it 

[Black River Smith]

Not fair, a second one already, but that looks beautiful so far BIll.  Have impressive.  Wish I had your skill and tools.

What did you start with this time?  Last time it was an older ASM 1860 Conv., I believe.

Black River Smith

[Ottawa Creek Bill]

Jerry,
This is an older ASM frame I've had for around plus 30 years. I should have showed the other side of it as it has all the colt markings/patent dates. I threw all the old insides away and made most of the parts/springs inside except the bolt and I am going to fit a new colt bolt to this frame. Yes the fixture holds the piece you are going to make the recoil sheild out of to the rotary table as you mill the sides of it.

I showed French Jack (Bob Chenault) how this operation worked when I did his Rogers & Spencer Conversion, and he thought it was real nifty, plus Bob has done some machine work himself. Being a fairly good artist I can draw the fixture out on paper and then make it, more times then not it works the way I thought it would. Most of the work except for turning down the basic cylinder shape (lathe) is done on the mill, and I have a good one. Any good machinist can do these...it's basic high school machine work...once you have your fixtures made.

Jerry, our good firiend and fellow NCOWS member, GW Schofield has let me examine his original Richards 1st. model any time I've asked and he has a beauty. The contours on the originals are nothing like you see coming from cimarron and the other importers...the real thing is much more graceful and the contours are much more pronounced and smoother, and that is what I am trying to do with my pistols. Walt Kirst and Jim Boeke both liked the two they saw..

Bill

[Pappy Hayes]

Once again great work. Keep the pictures coming.

[Hogleg_Willy]

Any chance to see some pics of the fixtures?

[Ottawa Creek Bill]

Hogleg,
I'll take a couple of pics of the one I use to make the recoil ring(s) and post it here this weekend (sunday?) It fits in the morse taper of my rotary table, so, if you can turn a taper on your lathe, you can make this fixture.

Bill

[Black River Smith]

Bill,

You are correct about the lines on an original.  It is a gracefully curved and radiused revolver.  I still  regret not having that $500, that one time I told you about.  Timing.

Hey would that work on an older EuroArm Brescia, I have.  Just kidding.  It has brass grip and backstrap also.  (That won't work for me.)

Someday I will get it figured out just like the '51.  The thing that throws me the most is the rebounding firing pin.  Just can not picture it and how to cut the hole and create the squarish stud.

Black River Smith

[Ottawa Creek Bill]

BRS,
Jerry,
The rebounding firing pin is not difficult, I make mine out of Oil Hardening drill rod, and the insert that holds it and the spring in the recoil shield, is made from 1/4-28 hex nuts that you can buy at most hardware stores such as Lowes or Minards. Drill them out to the diameter of the firing pin that the hammer strikes, and slot that end of it for a screw driver.

The reason I use oil hardening drill rod instead of water hardening is this, it is easier (for me at least) to work with. To properly harden any water hardening tool steel or drill rod, it needs to be done in a heated brine solution...I have a heat treat furnace and it is just less hastle for me. If I make a milling tool such as the one I use to mill out the concave recess that the recoil shield fits in, in a 1851 Colt conversion, then I use water hardening tool steel. But for the small jobs, I prefer the other.

You can use a good quality ball point pin spring and fit (cut) it so it keeps the end of the firng pin that strikes the primer just below the surface of the recoil ring. I buy my springs from Brownells. 

When you tap the recoil shield for the threaded & slotted insert that you've made out of the 1/4-28 hex nut, dont' tap it all the way to the bottom of the hole that you have drilled for it in the recoil shield. You want to thread it just far enough to seat the insert flush with the squared protrusion on the rear of the recoil shield that sits between the cut out for the hammer when it is screwed in, otherwise the spring may hang up on the extra threads. I hope this is no too confusing?? There are probably many other ways to do the above, so look around you may find an easier way to do it.

Bill

[willyboy]

Any chance of going commecial,getting your guns legally numbered and selling some?

[Ottawa Creek Bill]

Willy boy,
The time involved is the issue, I don't think I want to be tied down to it, its just a hobby for me.

Bill

[gw]

Bill---I just realized you never got the pictures you wanted at the Convention of my Richards. Let me know and we'll get it photographed sometime.

                                                     GW

[Pappy Hayes]

OCB

Have not heard anything for awhile. How's your project coming? Sent you a personal email couple of weeks ago. Did you receive it.

[Ottawa Creek Bill]

Sent you a personal email couple of weeks ago. Did you receive i

Pappy,
I don't think I got it, I'm usually good about answering them. I haven't done anything else to it and probably won't for about a week. I got a new Hope style saddle tree so I've started working on that.
I did take a picture of the fixture that Hogleg Willy asked about, but I have not downloaded them as yet, hope to this week sometime. The past two weeks a lot of my time was spent mailing out information to the media on the NCOWS national shoot that is going to be held at Hooten Old Town in McKee Kentucky June 14th-17th..so I have not had a lot of time.
Hopefully I'll be back on it next week as that is going to be my main match gun (in NCOWS we have classes that only require two guns, usaually a rifle and revovler).

Bill

[Pappy Hayes]

I figured you did not get it. Seems I may have had some problems with my email. I will send another email.


OCB did you get my email?

[Ottawa Creek Bill]

Pappy,
Got it and replied...

Bill

[Crow Scout]

Bill,  Is there any way you could repost those pics again or post some of what you have done up to this point?  I also am doing a Richards conversion and would like to get as many ideas as I can.  I want these to be as close to authentic as possible.  It sounds like you have the same hankerin. 

Thanks In Advance

[will52100]

would love to see the pics, don't have the necisary tooling to build turn and bore the cylinder yet, but would love to build a type 1.