model p durability

[law dawg]

I've just recently purchased a Taurus Gaucho 5 1/2 inch barrel in .45 colt.  I contacted Bob Munden about his action work as well as read about the different guns that are available to purchase from other sites as well as this one and through all my studies a common pattern develops, that these guns seem to need an action job that will cost between 200-300 dollars on top of the purchase price.
  These guns have only 5 moving parts inside them from what I can tell and I keep reading that they will chew themselves to pieces without this surgical procedure.  Why are the guns springs doing this and what are they rubbing against or working against themselves to destroy the gun?  I've owned a truckload of other double action revolvers and pistols from the 1911 to glock to s&w's to taurus and have never had a spring break or the gun destroy themselves because I didn't have an action job.  I always thought that the fewer moving parts a gun has the more robust it would be.  The gaucho seems to have a satisfactory hammer and trigger pull to me out of the box, am I doing wrong by taking this gun out to the range and shooting it and doing what the gun was supposedly designed to do or do I need to remortgage my home to even get in this game, I'm shooting for fun I could care less about competieng to win.

[law dawg]

I had no idea this would be a difficult or taboo topic to get info. on.

[Laredo Crockett]

If I were satisfied with the action as it is I would shoot it as is. I sure ain't no expert, but I fail to see where a gun would "destroy itself by working against itself". I may well   have to stand to be corrected though. I  have come near to destroying a few out of box Rugers for working against ME----Jeez, some of em are rough as received.

[Doc Sunrise]

Some gun companies put out a decent enough product that the action is already pretty good and does not need to be worked.  However, there are times that a gun may have some interior faces or contact points that are not completely smooth and may have burrs or rought cut metal that did not get filed or sanded properly.  Areas like the hand channel that the hand moves in, the hand frame window where the hand comes in contact with the rear of cylinder's ratchet teeth, the hammer cam that travels along and over the bolt arm, the face of the trigger that travels over and in the hammer notches.  If rough metal exists, the use of your gun may or may not feel gritty, but those burrs will scratch the part(s) that are moving against them and cut through them instead of letting them slide cleanly by, and will eventually weaken them until they fail.  All the oil in the world will not eliminate rough metal problems.  Basic action smoothing and timing usually costs under $100, if it is needed.  Major action jobs that cost more are really not neccessary for general shooting, but become neccessary for the shooter who is trying to really put their gun through extreme performance where speed and massive repititious use is the norm.  For them proper timing under this hard use is critical to extend the life of the interior parts of their gun. 

Careful inspection of the moving parts in action, or having a gunsmith smooth the action and check for proper timing is all that you may need.  You don't have to get crazy, unless you want to! 

[Steel Horse Bailey]

I can't speak for all guns.  MY gun company went out of business, partly do to quality issues on a failed venture to put out a Rifle.

That said, I've replaced exactly ONE spring and it was a "want to" replacement and not a "have to" replacement.  (I changed out the flat bolt spring for a wire type.)

There are loads of great gunsmiths out there who are up front, honest, and knowledgeable.  However, I just don't always see the "Must Have a $200 -$300 fix Before you Even Start or IT WON'T last" mentality!

I still, at 7 years consider myself relatively NEW to this Cowboy game, and I'm SURE I haven't seen all the problems that the Pros have seen.  I have, however, had a total of 11 Single Action guns (some Colt; some Remington) and NONE have failed except for the notoriously bad flat bolt spring in the C&B Colt-type pistols.  And I'm going on 30 years with C&B guns!  (I STILL haven't figured why so many - 6 or 7 - bolt springs have failed in my 1860 Army, but the same spring HASN'T failed in anything else! )

Nate Kiowa Jones, a gunsmith whom I trust completely, says that the gun companies put in heavier springs to compensate for their lack of fitting, so I don't really know what to say.  Perhaps I've simply been lucky.  I don't know - I never seem to be very lucky at about anything else!

[blue drifter]

I've just recently purchased a Taurus Gaucho 5 1/2 inch barrel in .45 colt.  I contacted Bob Munden about his action work as well as read about the different guns that are available to purchase from other sites as well as this one and through all my studies a common pattern develops, that these guns seem to need an action job that will cost between 200-300 dollars on top of the purchase price.
  These guns have only 5 moving parts inside them from what I can tell and I keep reading that they will chew themselves to pieces without this surgical procedure.  Why are the guns springs doing this and what are they rubbing against or working against themselves to destroy the gun?  I've owned a truckload of other double action revolvers and pistols from the 1911 to glock to s&w's to taurus and have never had a spring break or the gun destroy themselves because I didn't have an action job.  I always thought that the fewer moving parts a gun has the more robust it would be.  The gaucho seems to have a satisfactory hammer and trigger pull to me out of the box, am I doing wrong by taking this gun out to the range and shooting it and doing what the gun was supposedly designed to do or do I need to remortgage my home to even get in this game, I'm shooting for fun I could care less about competieng to win.

I agree law dawg......... it seems to be going the way drag raceing went when I was growing up it started out who new the most, and make your car the fastes. then slowly more and more STUFF came on the market. then it went to who had the most money to start buying this STUFF. till the new guy just could not keep up,next more classes then more rules,then the same 15 guys ever week would race. the rest is history

[Virgil Ray Hality]

I don't own Taurus Gauchos (Brazilian), so I can't say for them.  I own Uberti (Italy) and one thing I noticed over the last 5 years.  The Italian Clones seem to have gotten better.  The early ones would chew themselves up fast because they had stiff springs and soft metal internal parts.  From what I have read, part of the action work on the high end jobs includes hardening the parts.  I think that polishing prevents unnecessary gauling that can happen with rough parts.  Anyway, my gun smith said he did not see these kinds of problems with Colts cause the internal parts were harder.

My experience with older Uberti revolvers was that initial timing was spot on. Yet timing would wander over a year or so such that the bolt would drop right at the edge of the notch ramp on the cylinder.  You could delay this a year with softer springs.  When it got there anyway, you form or replaced the bolt and bolt screw. Next time is wandered out of time, you had a real gun smith replace the hammer cam, hammer bolt, bolt and bolt screw.  The cam is a real piece of work. You use a Colt cam, and you have to shave and drill the Uberti hammer.  Or, you replace the hammer.

Maybe the Gaucho has soft internals too?

[law dawg]

I wouldn't know if the gaucho has soft internals,but they use wolff springs and I've always heard they were the best according to the writers in the magazines.  They have a life time warranty so maybe I'll just leave it be and not terminate my warranty by having an outside source go messing with the internals.  I'm guessing the if it's not broke don't fix it motto will work in this case.  For the record Taurus puts out fine reliable guns in my opinion I've never had one that didn't work as advertised even though they may not be the most fawned over pieces of ordinance on the block.

[Chance]

Could it be that some of those who advocate the high end action jobs are those who would be doing the work?

[Wolfcamp Hill]

howdy,

I'm with you Law Dawg,  if its got a lifetime warranty I'd try to take advantage of the fact.  Do your best to wear the dadgum thing out and git a nuther one for free. 

wolfcamp

[John Barleycorn]

Hey Law Dawg,
   Used my Gauchos( .357  4 3/4" SS ) for a whole season with only one problem the transfer bar had to be replaced, sent to Taurus by the shop I bought them it from, well turn around could have been a lil faster but it didnt cost me a thing. Cant beat the price or lifetime warranty either. They were out of the box smooth so I havent done a thing to them.

[St. George]

The Colt Single Action Army's design is tough - and has proven itself since 1873.

There's no 'need' for any sort of action job until you've shot your gun for several hundred rounds.

Often - the only thing any of them 'need' is a thorough cleaning and lubing before you head off to the range.

Detail-strip the piece and look for any high spots or evidence of burring, then stone away any burrs - and stop once they're gone - maintaining factory angles.

Once you've tended to that chore - clean out the remaining factory lubricant and re-lube with something like 'Pro-Gold' or other 'good' lube.

Reassemble and try.

Should you feel the need to improve anything - you can always install a set of Wolff Springs yourself - rather than pay someone to do it as an 'action job'.

Good Luck.

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

[Virginia Gentleman]

I have only done minor stoning to all my SAAs except USFAs and the US Finish Cimarrons as they are good out of the box.  The regular Cimarrons needed a little stoning and filing in a couple of rough spots.  Otherwise they were are all fine and shoot great.