Hope saddle

[Quick Fire]

I've been thinkink about trying to build a Hope saddle and I have a few questions. First is their any one out there who sells patterns and second while researching saddle makers who build this type of saddle I've found that they make what is called a skeleton rig and a fully skirted rig. Which one would have been more period correct?

[James Hunt]

You should direct this question to OCB, in fact I think he had one for sale he built recently. Also you can google Border States Leather and Corrico leather. Both have stellar reputations in the CW cav reenactment crowd and build hope saddles. They both have good web sites. Regards

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Howdy!

I'll second what James Hunt said:  Contact Ottowa Creek Bill.  He's REAL good.

bill@surf-ici.com

[Ottawa Creek Bill]

Quick Fire,
The Skeleton Rigged Hopes are the earliest and most prevelant between 1860-1875, or until they were worn out. If you are going to build a Hope from the ground up, get your tree from Bowdens Saddle Tree company down in Texas, they are the best and have been in the business the longest. Make sure who ever you get your tree from, they know kind of horse it is going to be used on (A true Hope tree will not fit a modern horse properly unless it is 15 hands or less and has narrow withers), I usually have them make my trees with semi-quarter horse bars as it will fit most horses except an Arabian. E-mail me if you have any questions.

Bill

[Quick Fire]

OCB, I plan on getting my tree from Bowden's  but am undecided on whether or not to make it a skeleton rig or not. Everything I have read on it says that a skirted saddle stays on a horse much better. Any comments?

[Ottawa Creek Bill]

Quick Fire,
Yes, saddles with skirts will stay on a horse better then saddles that don't. But, when I talk about a skeleton rigged saddle, I mean one that doesn't have fender jockeys, usually a half seat. Your early Texas Drover saddles were as about as sparce as it gets when talking about saddles that are considered skeleton rigged saddles. Some of the early hope saddles had skirts, but were not fleece (sheep) lined, hard on a horse no doubt.

By the way Quick Fire, In Bowdens latest flyer, they have a Hope Tree listed, already made up for $180.00. It'll cost $250.00 plus for a new one ordered. It dosn't give any details, but you might want to check on it. I got my new tree last month. I'm gonna build a copy of the saddle Tommie Lee Jones used in the Missing. David Carrico knows the fella that built the saddle and he sent me a couple of good photos.

If you've never built a saddle, I would suggest that you get volumes 1,2,3, of Al & Ann Stohlmans Encyclopedia of Saddle Making. Even though the saddlles they build are more modern then what we are talking about, the construction is basically the same. Each time I build a saddle I go back to those books. A lot of good information.
E-mail me if you have any questions bill@surf-ici.com

Bill

[Quick Fire]

Thanks Bill, Even though I haven't built one entirely from scratch I have rebuilt enough of them that I think I can get one done.

[Ottawa Creek Bill]

Quick Fire,
Your early half seats, such as the Hope, and Collins are pretty straight forward as far as construction is concerned. Saddle building started getting complicated after the turn of the century when they started lowering the cantles, adding padded seats and covering the whole tree.
With your knowledge that you already have, I don't think you'll have any problems at all.
For me, nothing sits better or is more comfortable then a nice well constructed 19th century half seat slick A-Fork, with a five or six inch straight up cantle, and Sam Stagg rigging, and they are real pretty sitting on a horse and it just looks right.
Quick Fire, I don't know how well you can see my Avatar at the left of this post, but the saddle I am sitting on is a 1870-80 collins with full skirts that I built about four years ago.  These saddles aren't heavy compared to todays saddles, usually no more then 30 lbs., sometimes less. Later on today I'll post a couple of photos of it.
If you are going to match the saddle to a certain time period, the nice thing about a Hope is it can cover anywhere from 1860 all the way up to the 20th century.

Bill

[Dr. Bob]

Howdy Bill,

I have been told, I think by someone associated with the Frontier Army Museum, the Col. Rob't. E. Lee, US Army Corps of Engineers is pictured riding on a Hope saddle in the early to mid 1850's.  I will contact Steve Allie, the Museum Director and see if I can pin this down.

Howdy Quick Fire,

Good luck on hte saddle.  Keep us updated.  I have a Hope saddle that was ridden from Independence, MO to Santa Fe in the early 1990's.  Bill took pictures of it when he came to the congress meeting.  Bill, put one or two of them up too!   Might be able to bring it to the Convention!

[Quick Fire]

Dr. Bob, I would sure be interested to see your Hope saddle. I sure hope you can bring it to the convention. I probally won't start mine until after the convention. Once I get started on it I'll be sure and keep you posted. Hopefully I'll have it done and bring it to the Nationals this year.

[Dr. Bob]

Quick Fire,

I don't forsee any problem right now.  I was wrong about R. E. Lee, he was a LtC. of Calvary at the time.  He was an Engineer Capt. in the Mexican war.  Another glaring case of CRS!     

This getting old stuff is not for the faint of heart!

[Dr. Bob]

Howdy,

According to the web site of the SOCIETY OF THE MILITARY HORSE,  the Hope saddle was widely used prior to the Mexican War and was popular with officers.

The Hope saddle was in the competition to replace the Grimsley, which was expensive to produce.  Bill Jordan is doing a seminar on the McClellan saddle of Friday afternoon, 1 pm Rm. A.  Be there or be square!

Even an old fart can learn a lot with a properly worded web search!

[Ottawa Creek Bill]

Quick Fire,
The top saddle is a 1870's Texas Collins saddle I built in 2001, it's the one in the avatar photo. The bottom saddle is the one I am building this spring. It is the saddle that Tommy Lee Jones used in the film "The Missing". I will build a close but not exact replica of this saddle, including the silver work. It is a hope tree, but is heavilly Mexican/Spanish infuenced. My tree differs in that I had Bowdens cut slots in the cantle.

Dr. Bob,
I looked all over for the photos I took of your saddle but can't find them any where. I'll look again this afternoon.

Bill

[Quick Fire]

Those are a couple of really good looking saddles Bill. Hope mine turns out as good,