Belding & Mull Powder Measures

[klw]

Though my personal experience with these powder measures is very limited, I just love gadgets.  Maybe more than guns.

So when Buffalo Arms had a replica of the Belding & Mull blackpowder powder measure I just had to buy one.  A new company, called Belding & Mull, were making these replicas.  Ordered the unit capable of holding one pound of blackpowder.  I wouldn't do that again as that cylinder is LONG!  The unit was a disappointment.  The powder reservoir was staked to the main body and wobbled badly as the unit was used.  You can fix that with a lot of blue loktite but, well, this was expensive and that little detail should have been better done.

Montana Vintage ARms also has a version.  Got mine today.  This is a work of art.  Absolutely beautifully made.  Infinitely better attachement to the workbench.  Powder reservoir screws into the main body so you could, I guess, change powder cylinders if you decided you wanted a different size (they make three).  Unbelievable well made and darn near infinitely adjustable powder cylinder.  Just a real work of art.

There are other good blackpowder powder measures, the Cal Graf comes to mine, but this MVA unit is absolutely beautiful!

[Wagon Wheel]

The Spencer is my first foray into black powder or black powder substitute firearms.  I wasn't aware that you needed a different type of powder measure for black powder vs. smokeless.  Can someone elaborate on this?

WW

[Dakota Widowmaker]

Yes, you need a powder measure that is suitable for black.

There are a number of them.

Lee dippers come with updated tables for Pyrodex and GOEX as well as FFFg, FFg, and Fg.
[This is what I use...but, dippers are not adjustable]

For an adjustable powder measure, CVA and TC a

Cabelas has quite a selection.
http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/pod/horizontal-pod.jsp?_DARGS=/cabelas/en/common/catalog/pod-link.jsp_A&_DAV=MainCatcat20712&rid=&indexId=cat20819&navAction=push&navCount=5&parentType=index&parentId=cat20819&id=0003249

Just about any adjustable measure will work.

You don't NEED a drop tube, but, if you want to play with heavier loads, its a good thing to have. I made one of out 1/4" copper tube from HomeDepot and some 2x4" boards for support. My funnel at the top is just a Lee powder funnel hot glued in place. 40" tall and helps with 38-55 cases.

For 56-50, all you really need to do is fill the case about 1/4" below the rim with FFg or FFFg and then seat the bullet on top.

At most, you can get 50gr of FFFg in it. Which is why I guess a few folks have resorted to using Pyrodex 50cal 50gr "pellets". Do NOT use 777 pellets... those are way too hot for the 56-50. 777 is "warmer" than swiss.

FYI: Back during the civil war, Spencer carbines and rifles were stress tested with max loads and they found that by overcharging to 65gr of powder with repeated use would damage the breach. A 50gr pellet of 777 is more like 60gr of BP. So, you are skirting the limit.

"Original" 56-50 bullets had between 35-45gr of BP. IT really depended on who manufactured the cartridge as well as the bullet. (Winchester tended to load a bit lighter, some loaded as much as 50gr...)

Today's spencers are well made with excellent metalurgy and it has proven to be one of the strongest actions out there. The brass from Starline is a solid base variety and has excellent longevity.

[klw]

In recent decades the belief has been that the powder reservoir used for blackpowder should not be plastic.  So the Cal Graf uses brass as does this Belding & Mull.  Lyman uses aluminum.

This wasn't always the belief.  The last of the original Belding & Mull powder measures, for example, used plastic just like most non-blackpowder measures do today.  BUT some believe (probably company lawyers) that plastic can cause a spark and hence a detonation.  Since blackpowder is an explosive, rather than a propellant, a spark would lead to a REAL problem.  WWII garnades had only 4 ounces of blackpowder in them.

Blackpowder cartridges have another oddity.  Long held belief is that they should be completely full of something.  Not necessarily blackpowder but something.  So if you want a reduced load you might put a wad over the top of the powder (there are other reasons for using wads) or you might fill the gap between the top of the powder and the bottom of the bullet with oatmeal.

To increase the charge you use a longer case.  That is why there are rounds like the 45-70, 45-90, 45-100, 45-110 and 45-120.  Bigger charge really means a longer case.  Other possibilities when only a minor increase is wanted is a powder compression die or a powder drop tube.  Both of these techniques are also thought to lead to better, more uniform, ignition.To reduce a charge you can use oatmeal or some such.  That will alloy you to lower the charge a bit (do not get carried away with this idea).

Today some shooters thing that worrying about a gap in a blackpowder cartridge is the height of stupidity.  They point to old factory ammunition which, when taken apart, does not have enough blackpowder to fill the case.  They also point to using partially filled cases themselves with out ill effect.

BUT the bottom line is that a full case is safe.  A partially filled case may be safe or it may be a very serious accident waiting to happen.

Personally I think that it is morally wrong to suggest using partially filled cases.  I could care less if these people kill themselves but if their suggestions hurt others that is an entirely different matter.  Completely filled cases are safe.  Partially filled ones have the potential for real disaster.  Why run the risk?

[mtmarfield]

   Greetings!

I agree that BP cartridge reloaders should replace plastic reservoirs with brass or aluminum, to eliminate the possibility of static sparks; beyond that, I don't believe that I've ever seen a powder measure that didn't have a brass or aluminum alloy tumbler, nullifying concerns of two moving iron parts striking a spark. I use an Ideal #5 with a drop tube for all of my BP reloading.
Regarding uncompressed BP cartridge reloading: it just doesn't make sense. Maybe there's someone out there that "gets the greatest performance & accuracy" from a round that has BP sloshing around in the brass... But, for this mere mortal, I drop tube the powder, and I seat the bullet so that it AT LEAST contacts/presses down on the BP charge; the results are night & day as far as accuracy, and VERY low fouling go.
Anyone new to reloading should get manuals on BP cartridge reloading, especially: "SPG Lubricants BP Cartridge Reloading Primer", by Venturino & Garbe; also,"Loading Cartridges for the Original .45-70 Springfield Rifle & Carbine" by J.S. & Pat Wolf. Neither of these books has data for the 56-50 CF, but they will introduce you to BP cartridge loading basics that you can carry over to your Spencer reloading, as well as to all of the other cartridges, once you get hooked!

                          Be Well, All!

                                                 M.T. Marfield
                                                    1-10-06

[Wagon Wheel]

Looking around Midway I found two black powder measures that aren't too hard on the wallet:

Lyman #55 Classic Blackpowder Measure with 24" Drop Tube:

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=677653

and the Hornady Blackpowder Measure:

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=141795

Any thoughts on these two or some other choice?

Regards,

WW

[klw]

That Lyman powder measure, historically, is REALLY an interesting device.  I've got three of them.  I've retrofitted two of them with brass powder reservoirs bought, I think, from Buffalo Arms.

What makes them historically interesting is that they were designed for use with blackpowder and a plastic reservoir.  There was a time when folks did that.  Don't believe me?  Look at old Belding & Mull blackpowder powder measured on e-bay.  Quite a few of those have factory original plastic reservoirs.

The ability to adjust the largest drum on the Lyman unit was where you were suppose to adjust these measures to change blackpowder powder charges.  In an era of mostly smokeless powder that adjustment is all but forgotten.  Now, however, since blackpowder is back in vogue and that measure is still being made that adjustment comes in handy. 

But there is also a problem.  If you use that Lyman powder measure for smokeless powder and don't realize that that large drum moves you can accidentally open it just a crack.  Then, if that is true, sometimes smokeless powder will fill that void and sometimes it will not.  SO you can get weight variation using smokeless that are much larger than you would expect.

This is, of course, operator error and an error easily avoided IF you know it can happen.  I didn't know that, however, when I ran into this problem.  Unfortunately I was using that Lyman measure on really small charges for a small, old revolver.  Fortunately I spotted the problem and eventually figured it out before I got myself into VERY serious trouble.

[Hell-Er High Water]

KLW,

You are correct about the Lyman No. 55 powder measure being used with black powder.  I have one that I bought in the 1960's that has the clear plastic hopper and I still have the original instruction sheet that came with it.  In it it says that it is "For All Gun Powders".  In the instructions it also states that the graduations on the bottom slide "represent grains weight of black powder".

I have been using this for years with no problems, so perhaps the "No black powder" problem is just a percieved problem.

I throw this out for what it's worth.

HHW

[klw]

Back in the sixties?!  I didn't know that it was that recent.  That's really interesting.  Thanks!

I know that there was talk at the last Shot Show that Lyman might reverse themselves on this point but they did not.  And they probably shouldn't.  If one user had one serious problem with blackpowder in those plastic reservoirs Lyman would probably be sued for more than they were ever worth.

I think this country has to many lawyers!