Colt SAA Investment-What is the best barrel length for collectors?

[Virginia Gentleman]

I am going to get a Colt SAA that is finished by Doug Turnbull as sanctioned by Colt.  He gets them in the white and re-fits and finishes them to look like mid-1st generation Colts with the correct roll marks.  This gun will be an investment and not a shooter.  From a collector's standpoint, what is the best barrel length to get as the most desireable.  I am doing this because it looks like Colt may not be in business that long, my sources tell me.  If this is true, Colts will skyrocket in collector value and I want to get in on the action. 

[deucedaddyj]

Wow! After more than 150 years Colt's finally going under? That'll be a sad day in American history.

[Forty Rod]

One source says they're tooling up to make new guns, another say they're bringing out the old line of civilian stuff, this one says they're about to fold.

I don't care anymore.  Colt hasn't really been in the "gun business" since the '80s as far as I'm concerned.

Want a Colt investment?  Find a top notch first generation with the proper provenance (see, you can learn something by watching Antiques Roadshow) and put it away in a safe place.

[Virginia Gentleman]

Real 1 generations are out of the question, they are too expensive for the condition level I would like.  Colt as a company isn't going to make it long term, the UAW and greedy owners and managers are driving it into the ground.  The Turnbull Colts seem like the best option for me, what is the best barrel length to get from a collectors standpoint?

[Big John Denny]

VG, the standard collector gun for years has been the 7 1/2" barrel length. However, if you had a 1st generation with a custom length barrel put on by Colt, requires a Colt letter to verify of course, it would bring more because of its rareity.

[Virginia Gentleman]

From what I have read the 7 1/2" barrel is one of the least desirable because it is not a popular barrel length.  Which then is better the 4 3/4 or 5 1/2 for collecting?  The barrel is not a first generation as the threads would not be the same size as a 3rd generation, rather Turnbull puts the older 1st generation roll marks on it with the traditional font and simple caliber markings of the period.  A letter stating it is a Turnbull gun from Colt would indeed make it more valueable.

[Major 2]

Real 1 generations are out of the question, they are too expensive for the condition level I would like.  Colt as a company isn't going to make it long term, the UAW and greedy owners and managers are driving it into the ground.  The Turnbull Colts seem like the best option for me, what is the best barrel length to get from a collectors standpoint?

If what you say is true , (may well be) one of two things is likely to happen...

The Feds will step in with a bail out (like Chrysler Corp) so the Germans or Japanese can later buy it out.

or it will be bought by Uberti/Bereta

[Virginia Gentleman]

Turnbull is doing this as a regular offering WITH the sanction of COLT, this NOT buy a gun and send it up to him.  This I am told makes the piece more rare and more authentic compared to the other 3rd generations.  Turnbull gets them in the white from Colt with a letter.  I am buying this gun as an investment, not for something I like which is US Fire Arms over Colt anyday.  This is a strictly speculation purchase, so I'll ask again FROM A COLLECTOR"S STANDPOINT, which is more desireable, a 4 3/4" or 5 1/2" barrel? BTW the Colt custom shop in house, does not offer period correct Carbonia blue, 1st generation roll marks, 1st generation knurled hammers or beveled trigger guards.  If they ever do, it goes up to Turnbull anyway.

[Virginia Gentleman]

If what you say is true , (may well be) one of two things is likely to happen...

The Feds will step in with a bail out (like Chrysler Corp) so the Germans or Japanese can later buy it out.

or it will be bought by Uberti/Bereta

I seriously doubt the Feds will give them a dime, they are too small to matter unlike Chrysler.  I think someone will buy the name and hopefully reorganize it and take it out of Connecticut or it will just die, like Packard, Studebaker and Dusenberg.

[Big Hext]

Howdy,

All of your information appears to be anecdotal.  Until you have something that approaches an "official" position or statement, I'd refrain from investing, unless you invest in a gun that currently enjoys collector status and value, like a proper first generation Colt.

Turnbull does nice work, but it does not enhance the collector value, and likely will not in the future.
Adios,

[Big John Denny]

VG, you'll have to excuse me. My first post on your question was for a collector grade 1st Generation. The listed blue book value of a 1st Gen SAA with the original 7 1/2" Brl in 90% condition is $65,000. The only other 1st Gen worth more is the Buntline, a non-standard Mfg, at $135,000 in 95%.

Of the current Custom Shop produced SAA the 7 1/2 has been in limited production since 1992, meaning there are less of them out there then the short brl guns. In 1993 the new serialiization of the 3rd Gen guns began. All the serial numbers now begin with the letter S followed by the numbers and then the letter A. They started at S02001A. The advantage of the 7 1/2" is it has the one line barrel address, as does the 5 1/2".

If you don't want a 7 1/2", which is still very popular with Colt collectors, not SASS shooters, I would go with a custom order brl lenght of 4 or 5" with ejector rods, which Colt dropped from their standard production line in 1988 for the 4" and 1987 for the 5". I would also consider a caliber of 38 Spcl , which for a standard 3rd Gen adds 25% to the value. These might significantly increase in value if Colt does stop production of the SAA, which I don't think will happen as quickly as others might think. Remember, anything out of the ordinary production guns offered will increase the value.

Whatever your final decision is I would letter the Colt from both Colt and Turnbull to verify its a custom factory gun and not a cut down, and the finish placed on the gun by Turbull.

[Virginia Gentleman]

I am going to get a Colt SAA that is finished by Doug Turnbull as sanctioned by Colt.  He gets them in the white and re-fits and finishes them to look like mid-1st generation Colts with the correct roll marks.  This gun will be an investment and not a shooter.  From a collector's standpoint, what is the best barrel length to get as the most desireable.  I am doing this because it looks like Colt may not be in business that long, my sources tell me.  If this is true, Colts will skyrocket in collector value and I want to get in on the action. 

Guys, please read this again. I never mention buying a 1st generation Colt.  I can not and could not afford to buy a real 1st generation Colt in 100% condition.  I think the current 3rd generations are affordable, but look horrible, the cheap roll marks etc.  If a 3rd generationis my option, I'd like to get one that looks nice and correct to the period of 130 years ago.  I don't see how this can reduce it's value since they are already going for more on the auction boards than the Turnbull issue price. Regular 3rd generations are not going up in value much over the current retail price or less if used.  Colt's so called custom shop farms their work out for alot of their offerings to guess who?  Turnbull.  Turnbull with the blessing of Colt is offering his fully period correct guns to a 1st generation roll marks, the correct kind of bluing etc. I've already outlined.  Turnbull gets the guns in the white (not a refinished gun) and uses his own serial numbers that Colt records. Colt will also letter the gun as such as I called them and they said so, after bring put on hold for ages.  I think it is logical that this gun will have more collector appeal than a plain jane 3rd generation like any special run/edition collectible...my speculation..I know.  Barrel length, like any aspect of a collectible, is rarer in one sense than another because of the number that were made.  4 3/4" is the most popular, but is it the most desireable for the collector over the 5 1/2" barrel, maybe, maybe not?  That is the question.    I looked into it and Turnbull, like the factory only offers the 3 barrel lengths unless you want to go custom which costs too much coin. Seriously, maybe you all don't know as there are more shooters than collectors on this board. If anyone can answer please do!

[Big John Denny]

VC, OK I'll try one more time. First I am a Colt collector, and currently have 15 1st, 2nd and 3rd Gen SAA. I only collect the calibers that begin with "4". In my last post I suggested you get a custom barrel length because they are always worth more then the standard offered lengths. But I see that is cost prohibitive for you.

Either 4 3/4" or 5 1/2" are acceptable, and each have their collectors. However, since you're going to have it done up to appear to be a mid-1st Gen gun, I would go with a caliber from that period, they offered a total of 36 different calibers during the life span of the 1st Gen guns. The most popular wer 45 Colt and 44-40. You have to make up your mind on which caliber you want that Colt still offers which are 32-20WCF, .357Mag, 38 Spcl, 38-40WCF, 44 Spcl, 44-40WCF, and 45 Colt.

I want to advise you though that true Colt collectors don't place that much extra value on a modern re-marked gun no matter who did the work on it. What you are going to end up with is a 3rd Gen SAA re-marked and finished to appear to be a 1st Gen SAA, but it isn't. There are folks out there that might be interested in it because of who did the work. However, most true Colt collectors will not place as high a value as you may be anticipating, because we want as near stock guns produced in the correct periods as possible.

I'm not trying to be arguemenative here, but you asked for the straight skinny and I'm trying to do my best to do that.

[St. George]

Knowing more than a couple of highly-placed folks in the Industry - I'd have to reiterate that your initial comment about Colt's demise is anecdotal - though you do seem quite happy to repeat it - regardless of any form of provenance whatsoever.

Try not to do that.

Reviewing and then citing your source is always a good idea, since the 'net allows for some truly interesting 'takes' on things.

Honestly - I don't know where you're seeing Third Generation guns that look poorly - unless it's the initial production run of their inception.
Quality Control 'was' hit or miss at the time - but they did make good on them.

The new guns are - as I've mentioned before - fully the equal of 'any' Second Generation guns - and in many ways are more attractive, since the finishes are crisper.

The comment made about the Custom Shop's work is on the money.

They can and do routinely produce beautiful guns and their work 'is' the Standard - witness all of the claims of the clones as to 'their' fit and finish and such, and look to see how many folks want their gun to have a Colt finish or Colt grips.

'Colt-type' - isn't 'Colt'...

Not to anyone who collects them.

A truly Colt-produced product will 'always' be better received than any re-do work by any of the many talented 'restoration' guys.
A gun 'sanctioned by Colt' is a gun that's been finished and made to appear as an earlier piece - but no matter what work is done to it - or by whom - it never started out that way and so it's not going to be.

Much like the 'Pre-War' finishes on certain revolvers that leave one asking - 'which' war?...

You ask about desireable barrel lengths - but reject the suggested 7 1/2" - which 'is' the preferred length of folks who collect older Colts.

Faced with that - then pick the length that appeals most to you on an aesthetic level.

As to caliber - if you're looking at that era - .32-20 has been hard to find - but that's due to the fact that many, many were re-barrelled and cylindered for .45 Colt - after the rise of the TV Westerns set in.

If you go this route - you're looking at a plain-vanilla gun - finish-wise - so if you're spendng the money - give thought to one-piece carved Ivory grips or a level of Engraving to further 'sell' it to someone down the road.

It'll need the help, once it becomes known that it's 'not' a factory product - but a 'sanctioned' one.

Alternatively - put your money into a good 'real' Pre-War Colt that still has its box and literature - or any Second Generation boxed guns that are untouched and unturned.

You can make a profit within your first year of ownership.

Scouts Out!

[Big John Denny]

VC, I'll give you an example of what St. George suggested. Two years ago I was at a large local gun show and saw an older gentleman carrying a red and white box with a Stagecoach on it. Asked what he was selling and he handed me the box. Inside the Colt mid-range 2nd Gen box was a mint condition nickel 4 3/4" 2nd Gen Colt SAA in 45 Colt, with the Colt ivory grips. The box had all the original papers and his original bill of sale where he bought the gun in 1966. He named his price, which was very reasonable, and I handed him the money.

He had never fired the gun, just he had a few extra hundred in 1966 and had always wanted a Colt SAA.

The point is this. That 2nd Gen gun in its condition with the original box, papers, etc, was worth more the day I bought it then the speculation gun you want with the Turbull finish will ever be worth.

No, I don't run into Colt's in that condition all the time, but the point is they are out there and they are more desirable to a Colt collector then what you want to build.

[Virginia Gentleman]

My sources are iron clad and to protect the innocent, they are not going to be cited.  Also, I got my original question answered on another board, the 5 1/2, the 4 3/4 and then the 7 1/2 are generally accepted in that manner by collectors for standard length barrels.  The 4 3/4" is the most popular and most numerous, but the 7 1/2 is less common, but not as popular.  BTW, Colt sends Turnbull an unfinished, unserial numbered and un roll marked gun, so it is roughed out by Colt and finished by his operation and recorded at Colt.  Another collector advised me these would generally be more valuable, but it would take a bit longer.  FWIW, that is what I found out and I appreciate all the good, the bad and the ugly advice.

[Big Hext]

Good luck with your investment.. I sure hope it pans out for you.

Adios,

[Virginia Gentleman]

Thanks, and FYI I got another Colt collector, who knows about these guns to validate my assumptions.  He also indicated that the 4 3/4" barrel is probably best and followed by the 5 1/2" barrel.  He said 7 1/2" barrels are valuable if they are engraved or in true cavalry configuration. 

[claude]

Ever sence the 70's I have heard the same thing about Colt closing down well maybe this time it's true ? it always brings the price up anyway. As far as buying a Colt for a investment spend the money and take your time finding one like I do, local estate sales,Quartsite,trades etc. Now as far as sending them out to this person who buys them unfinished, what would he do to make them athentic and may trick them out if you plan to not shoot them? I am out of the loop on this one.

                                                                         Claude. ???

[Virginia Gentleman]

To clarify, Turnbull gets the gun from Colt who sends it to him unfinished, unrollmarked, unserial numbered and in the white.  I would buy the finished gun through my dealer from Turnbull. Colt records that Turnbull is making this as a special run.  I don't plan on shooting it since it is a collector/investor piece. For a shooting gun I rely on my Cimarrons and occasionally my US Fire Arms SAAs.  I don't want to buy or use a Colt for shooting.