Personal overview of 1911s for WB

[DeaconKC]

I originally posted this on the WB forums.

I work in a gun store and see all sorts of 1911s come in all the time. There are a half dozen 1911s here at my house right now, ranging from a 1917 Colt to a S&W Scandium Bobtail Commander, so I am familiar with these beasties. So here is a brief break down of things to consider using the WB  Shooters Handbook:
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1911 PISTOL
A full-size single stack 1911 semi-auto pistol is used in Wild Bunch Action Shooting.
- Must be .45 ACP caliber
- The term "1911 pistol" herein refers to the 1911A1 model as well as its clones.
- No more than one main match pistol may be carried to the firing line.
1911 Pistol – Modern & Traditional Category
The Modern and Traditional shooting categories carry a number of the same parameters
when it comes to the 1911 Pistol. First, we will list the common parameters for both
categories, then in the subsequent sections we will address the parameters specific to each of
the categories individually.
Common Parameters
- Barrel length must be five inches.
- No barrel porting or compensators or other recoil reducing devices are allowed.
- Barrel with standard barrel bushing. No Bull barrels are allowed.
- Magazine wells may be beveled, but may not be oversized, extended, or flared.
- Stainless steel full size 1911 pistols are permitted.
- Aluminum frame full size 1911 pistols are permitted.
- Wrap around grips that cover a portion of the front strap are illegal.
- No target style or thumb rests are allowed.
- A groove can be cut in the grip to facilitate the shooter reaching the magazine
release, but no material may extend beyond the original profile of the grip. Grips
that are thinner at one end or the other but have a straight taper are allowed.
- Magazines must be standard length and may be loaded with up to seven rounds.
- Overloaded rounds that are fired are penalized as "illegally acquired"
ammunition.
- A base pad may be added to the magazine if it meets the following requirements:
it must be made from natural leather material only. It must be no larger than the
contour of the base of the magazine. The total thickness of the pad may not extend
more than ¼" beyond the original base plate.
- Empty magazines may not weigh more than three ounces.
- Flat, wedge, or arched mainspring housings are permitted. The mainspring
housing may be serrated or checkered.
- Lanyard loop is optional.
- Internal accurizing and action tuning is allowed.
- Thumb and grip safeties must function correctly.
1911 Pistol – Traditional Category Modifications
The Wild Bunch Traditional Category has specific parameters that must be adhered to, in
addition to the rules Traditional shares with the Modern Category. The frame and slide must
conform to the "military style" 1911 or 1911Al configuration (e.g., no light rails, enlarged dust
covers, and so forth). The finish on traditional pistols varies from polished blue to very matted
Parkerizing. All these finishes are legal. Also allowed are any dull color such as OD green,
flat dark earth, desert tan, etc. No bright color such as red, yellow, orange, or white is allowed.
 
 

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Pistols may also be plated, color case finished or painted. When checkering, matting, or
stippling is mentioned, it means actually cutting a pattern in the frame or slide. Note:
"Standard" in all cases means Standard Military Specs.
- Unloaded pistol weight may not exceed 40 ounces with an empty magazine
inserted
- Only non-adjustable "military style" simple blade rear and front sights allowed.
The 10-8 National Match and the Harrison Design 003 are approved rear sights.
- Front sights may be dovetailed, pinned, or staked.
- Sights may be the color of the slide or any combination of the slide color, including
but not limited to blue, black, or natural stainless (natural colored) steel. The
back of a colored front sight may be polished to a natural steel color.
- Only rear slide checkering or serrations. No front slide checkering or serrations
are allowed.
- Only standard grip safeties are allowed. No beavertail style grip safeties.
- Standard thumb safety only- it may not be extended.
- Standard slide release only – it may not be extended.
- Standard recoil spring guide only. No full-length guide rods allowed.
- Short or long solid triggers are permitted. No flat or lightweight match triggers
are allowed.
- Lowered and flared ejection port is allowed.
- Checkered front strap or trigger guard is not allowed.
- Standard spur type hammer only.
- Standard length magazine release only- it may not be extended or oversized.
1911 Pistol – Modern Category Modifications
The Wild Bunch Modern Category has specific parameters that must be adhered to, in
addition to the rules the Modern category shares with the Traditional Category. Pistol
finishes vary widely. Bluing, plating, polishing, painting, etc. are all legal.
- Dust cover light rails are legal.
- Unloaded pistol weight may not exceed 42 ounces with an empty magazine
inserted.
- Adjustable or non-adjustable rear sights and blade type front sights are allowed.
- Sights may not be optical or fiber optic. Laser sights are not allowed. Sights may
be painted or have colored dots or inserts.
- Front and rear slide checkering or serrations allowed.
- No external "rib" allowed on top of slide. This means no external rib such as a
BoMar may be attached to the top of the slide by screws, welding, or any other
means.
- The top of the slide may be flattened, serrated, and/or matted to reduce glare.
- Original Colt Gold Cup ribs are legal. Ribs machined as part of the slide by the
manufacturer, such as the Colt Gold Cup rib are approved.
- Extended beavertail grip safeties are allowed.
- Extended magazine releases are allowed.
- Thumb safeties may be extended and be ambidextrous.
- Slide release may be extended.
- Full-length recoil spring guide rod allowed.
- Match trigger allowed.
 
 

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- Lightweight competition hammer is allowed.
- Checkered front strap and trigger guard allowed. This means any type of
checkering, stippling, and/or serrations are legal.
- Finger grooves on the front strap are illegal.
- External extractor allowed.
 Okay, starting with the Springfield Armory Mil-Spec 1911. This is a 1911A1 available in stainless or blued. The sights are larger than the traditional JMB nubs and have 3 dots. A dab of paint or a Sharpie will black the sights out, making this legal. Finish and machining are first class and It comes with an excellent trigger and comes with one 7 round magazine with a MSRP of $725.

Next up is the Tisas 1911 also called Zig, again 1911A1 models this time with a couple of options. If you have youthful eyes, there is one with the JMB sight nubs and the "US Army" model is so close to the original Colt that the CMP is selling them.  Their Service PB 45 comes with a ceracoated slide, better sights and a flat mainspring housing. I have one of the basic ones and can say the trigger is decent and the machining inside is properly done where it needs to be done. The exteriors are a heavy matte eggshell bead blast. Comes with one magazine and is made in Turkey.  MSRPs are from $429 to 449.

Rock Island Armory makes a solid parkerized 1911A1 and one in Nickel. These have JMB style nub sights and come with two 8 round magazines. Early ones had magazine problems but the current guns come with Act-Mags, which are very good mags. Much like the Tisas' guns, interior work is very good, while the base gun exteriors are even and matte. MSRP on the Parkerized gun is $499 while the Nickel one goes for $799.

If you find a used American Tactical 1911, they are very good running guns, but it seems ATI is not listing them anymore.

And Daddy of the 1911s Colt. Since CZ's acquisition of Colt their quality is spotless. Their new guns come in Matte, High Polish Blue and Stainless. The sights are excellent, clear and very easy to pick up. All finishing and machine work is excellent with very good Series 70 triggers. Comes with one 8 round magazine. Most have flat MSHs and MSRP runs from $899 to $1700.

Sadly Ruger, S&W and Sig do not offer Traditional style guns.

Cimarron's 1911 is a 1911 model, available in Blue and Nickel. It is blessed with the nubbin sights, and is a gorgeously finished pistol. MSRP is $635 and up.

Taylor's is another 1911 model with a high polish Blue or Nickel finish and again the nubbin sights. MSRP is $729 in blue.

Iver Johnson's 1911A1 with better sights and has a good reputation, but I haven't handled one of these myself. MSRP is $900+

Fusion Firearms has a 1911A1 with an interesting "semi-improved" set of sights, somewhere between nubs and taller sights as on the Colt 1911A1. I have built guns on Fusion frames and their stuff is very good. MSRP starts at $750.

The Charles Daly is a 1911 style frame with nub sights and the stuff carrying their name seems to be well made. MSRP starts at $604

And the Auto-Ordnance and Thompson branded guns are made on the same line, so I am putting them together. They are a 1911A1 pattern with nubbin sights and all sorts of finishes available. Well finished and made over the years. MSRP starts at $750 and goes up from there.

Metro Arms [Phillipines] 1911A1, excellent sights and has nice Mahogany grips. Will need to have trigger replaced with a solid unit. Accuracy from a .38 Super I shot was outstanding, so I will guess the .45 will be a good shooter too. Parkerized and Chrome plated versions [the chrome was sent back to the distributor for blemishes, but the Parkerized was very good looking]. MSRP from $549-899. Comes with a nice hard case and one magazine.

If you buy a used 1911 or A1, I would suggest in the strongest way possible to replace all the springs. Detail stripping is not difficult and Wolff makes a spring pack that is very reasonably priced, and is very cheap insurance to make your 1911 run well.

[Abilene]

Howdy Deacon.  I have continued looking and have found zero evidence new or used of a Taylors 1911 in polished blue or nickel, including their catalogs (which are dated 2022) so I'm still wondering where that came from?  Possibly a brand new price list from them that has guns they have on order?  Even though not on their website, I do see some parkerized 1911's from Taylors with the original frame on some sale sites.

On my Cimarrons I don't mind the small sights, I mainly wanted them because of the original 1911 frame, plus the correct slide markings.  If someone wants to be "period correct" (hah!) for WB, parkerized 1911s didn't come until later.  Besides grips, the only thing I changed was a lighter spring from Wolff for the magazine release.  They run great with the ACT mags as well as Ed Brown and Chip McCormick.  The only "problem" for me is the extractors could use tuning as I lose a lot of brass that is flung in front of the stage. 

[Major 2]

This is an excellent thread, many thanks and kudo to the Deacon.
 My fire 1911 was Remington Rand frame/ Colt slide Mixmaster back in mid- eighty's.
This was long before CMP's offerings, it was literally a past bin assemblage.
But it did shoot and serve an itch for 1911, I wanted to scratch.
Several years later, while working on a Film in Texas we were out near the Nueces River, several were shooting various guns we had.
One of the crew decided he wanted my 1911, well he dangled really serious money, and it went home with him.
Next, came my Cimarron (Rock Island) in gloss blue in 2014. I just finished these American Holly grips and put them on last week.
 I traded a Door Prize won Glock 17 for My Springfield Armory in 2019.
And the same year, I met a WW2 Veteran, the late William "Bill" Roberts USAAC who flew missions in Europe in a B26, I was honored to acquire his Ithica 1911 as it was issued to him in 1945. 
And lastly, but not least my Springfield Armory EMP.
I'm quite sure something in the 1911 family will join them. 
They are just to cool for school.

The trio photo below 1. is the Gloss Blue Cimarron with OEM grips
                                   2. The Springfield Arsenal
                                   3. Capt, Roberts Ithica

[Major 2]

The EMP which is 9mm....

I had tried back when The CMP offer the first round of 1911's.
But, I did not make the lottery list, by the second round I had acquired
Capt. Roberts service gun.
I think they are wrapping up the 4 round this month, and there is a 5th-round coming.
Something like 12,000 guns still in their inventory.
However, prices have escalated $400 across the 5 grades (if available) since the 1st. round thru 4th.
Something like $1100. for Rack Grade (lowest) in the 4th round.

If you are interested here the contact
 https://thecmp.org/sales-and-service/1911-information/
 

[Abilene]

My first 1911, a Kimber Compact Aluminum I bought back in '98.  I put 3K rounds through it at the range but don't shoot it much any more, trying not to wear out the alloy frame.  It took quite a bit of breaking in, not liking the Shooting Star mags at first that came with it.  Wilson Combat mags were much better, then the Shooting Stars worked better later.  I have small hands and the officer size grip fits well but for some reason the government size pistol points much better for me.

[DeaconKC]

Yup, Abilene, I emailed Taylor's after your comments in WB forum and never got an answer, so all bets are off. Major, those are looking good [and enjoyed our conversation tonight]. Still showing the blood blisters that Metro gave me from that hammer bite!

[Abilene]

While I was searching I saw two new Taylors 1911 (not A1) advertised at a shop in Abilene, Texas for just $325 each.  Shipping, tax, and transfer would add about $90, but still...tempting, as I'd have a 1911 frame in three different finishes.  Hmmm, thinking about it!  I actually might be driving through Abilene in a couple weeks, but they could be gone by then.  This could end up being a "fate" thing, if I go and they still have one, it was meant to be!  Or vice-versa.  I used to do that at gunshows - if I came back later and it was gone, it wasn't for me. 

[Major 2]

Fate ...meant to be, that's how I acquired the EMP 

It was consigned at or very near, new retail.
In fact, it was as new in box with 3 extra Mags and XS Combat sights added.
But was priced a "Bridge too Far"
I was actually looking at another consigned Rock Island loaded operator.
I waited about two weeks and while I procrastinated, it sold.

I made an offer on the EMP, and to my surprise the motivated owner accepted.

Here something I traded 3 of my new handmade Holsters for,
 One was an order; the others were to be on consignment.

It's almost a 1911... A Zastava M57 


 
 

[Abilene]

Excellent!  Barter to the rescue. 

[Major 2]

The M57 is cool it Was Yugoslavia's version of the Russian Tokarev TT33
 developed during the late 1920s by Fedor Tokarev.
Most of the iron curtain draped countries used it or made it under license.
 Yugoslavia took it and improved it; internal guide rod captured recoil spring and lengthened the grip and Magazine to allow 8 rounds of 7.62 X 25
opposed to the 7 of the TT33.
The TT30 & TT33 were based on the earlier pistol designs of John Browning.

[Major 2]

Nice Kimber Abilene, 45 ACP I assume?

[Major 2]

Sharing this photo Circa 1920 of Mexican Air Force pilot...
 Not sure what the airplane is, not enough in the photo to identify, possibly a British Arvo 504.


I'm fascinated with his 1911 holster, maybe attempt making a copy or commission one

[Abilene]

Hi Major:
Kimber: yes 45acp.  I don't know if they made any other calibers in '98. 
Mexican pilot: yeah, cool holster!

[Major 2]

no dog in the fight, though I have contacted the seller "if a 1911 would fit.
no response


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