44-40 hunting load question

[medic44]

    I have a 24" Uberti 1873. I have not slugged the barrel but was told they are .429. I want to shoot deer off my river property with this rifle. I am wondering if using a 225gr Hornady FTX(leverevolution bullet) and 8.0grs of Unique would be safe/adequate for this rifle. Another question is the Hornady bullet is .430 jacketed. Will this still be safe and perform well with the .429 bore? Hope I was clear. Thanks for any help or tips.. *I do not want to use hard cast lead for this hunting load

[cpt dan blodgett]

Lyman 51 lists 73 winchesters as a group 1 Rifle (weak action reduced pressure loads)
200 grain JHP start load zUniqur 7.6 gr 865 fps max load 8.5 grains 981 FPS.

I would not shoot 8 grains of unique and a  225 grain bullet out of my Miroku 73. 

Do not believe a deer will know the difference between a 200 JHP and a 225 grain flextip but the rifle may well find the 225 grainer a bridge too far.

[Coffinmaker]

  Ah, Not Quite 

Lyman 51 is making their proclamation pertaining to "Winchester" based on real, original "Winchester."  That being said, that proclamation is just fine for 125 year old "original" sample examples of questionable metallurgy.  However:

The Uberti 1873 replica is proofed for .44 Magnum.  Your cited and proposed load would not cause any concern in a Uberti or Miroku modern reproduction in good condition with properly aligned links.

[medic44]

Ok thanks
Coffinmaker. Will the .430 jacketed bullet do well in the .429 bore?

[Coffinmaker]

  Medic44

I would personally think a .430 Jacketed bullet would be abusive to a 429 bore.  The general rule of thumb is LEAD bullets of .4295 or .430 to stabilize in the bore grooves.  Most commercial loadings/bullets I am aware of utilize .429 Jacketed bullets to match the industry standard .429 bore.

[Ya Big Tree]

Ok thanks
Coffinmaker. Will the .430 jacketed bullet do well in the .429 bore?

A 44 magnum bore is .429 and the bullet used in the 44 magnum is .430 diameter. The bullet you chose will be just fine.
I'd use a 200 grain XTP with the load information listed below.

https://reloadammo.com/reloading-the-44-40-winchester/

[medic44]

A 44 magnum bore is .429 and the bullet used in the 44 magnum is .430 diameter. The bullet you chose will be just fine.
I'd use a 200 grain XTP with the load information listed below.

https://reloadammo.com/reloading-the-44-40-winchester/

I saw the xtp bullet, If was to use the FTX hornady flext tip 225 grn... would i reduce the load if using unique? or keep at 8.0 gr? I dont have to use the flex tip bullet, but I have downed plenty animals to feel comfortable about using it, as I feel its proven itself to me. Thank you

[Ya Big Tree]

I saw the xtp bullet, If was to use the FTX hornady flext tip 225 grn... would i reduce the load if using unique? or keep at 8.0 gr? I dont have to use the flex tip bullet, but I have downed plenty animals to feel comfortable about using it, as I feel its proven itself to me. Thank you

I looked in a bunch of manuals for a 44-40 225 gr. FTX and couldn't find anything. You could call Hornady and see if they have any information for you.

I would definitely reduce the load if working up a load for the 225gr FTX. You could always increase it while watching for pressure signs. With that said I'd still use a 200 grain HP pistol bullet with published load data.
I really like the Nosler 240 gr. JHP and my brother in law uses the Hornady 240 gr JHP in 44 Mag rifles and pistols for deer.

[Cholla Hill Tirador]

 Uberti-produced firearms chambered in .44 caliber cartridges have a groove diameter of .429". A .430" diameter bullet will work fine in such a barrel.

  With the toggle link actions one has to be careful with their overall cartridge lengths. You can usually get by with o.a.l.'s that are a little on the short side, but if the o.a.l. is too long the cartridge won't feed. If I remember correctly 1.6" is the absolute maximum o.a.l. for the '66's and '73's.

 You could probably work up a load for the 225 gr. FTX, but the simplest thing to do if you must use a jacketed bullet is use a 200 gr. Hornady. My Hornady manual doesn't have a jacketed data for the 44-40 in a rifle, but in a revolver their maximum load with Unique is 9.8 gr.

 If you want to keep things really simple just order something like MBC's 200 gr. RNFP lead bullet. I've loaded a similar bullet (220 gr.) in my 1866 Uberti 44-40 Sporting Rifle with 9.5 gr. of Unique. MV was well north of 1300 fps and the load was quite accurate even at 200 and 300 yds.

 

 The same bullet only with black powder works perfectly for me on whitetail-

 

[Bryan Austin]

I have a 24" Uberti 1873. I have not slugged the barrel but was told they are .429. I want to shoot deer off my river property with this rifle. I am wondering if using a 225gr Hornady FTX(leverevolution bullet) and 8.0grs of Unique would be safe/adequate for this rifle. Another question is the Hornady bullet is .430 jacketed. Will this still be safe and perform well with the .429 bore? Hope I was clear. Thanks for any help or tips.. *I do not want to use hard cast lead for this hunting load

Pressures can vary significantly with different weight and design bullets when using the exact same charge of powder. During my amateur testing, Unique yielded to following results;

8.5gr of Unique, using a 200gr JHP Speer #4425 SOFT JACKETED HOLLOW POINT. 1,164fps @ 11,363psi (13,431cup), Lyman's 49th Max Load for Group I weak action rifles is listed as 13,300cup.

If I recall correctly the Speer 4425 is a .429" diameter bullet with a profile and meplat matching that of the 44-40 design. Using a heavier bullet, and a bullet of a different profile design (distance from the lands when chambered, etc), along with a larger diameter can significantly increase the pressures.

Let me ask you this, what pressures are you willing to consistently use in your 73" replica, regardless of what is advised? You are going to have to ignore velocity, because I can assure you that you will exceed "max" pressures long before the original 1,325fps velocity is replicated with that powder.

However, if you are willing to accept the possible unpleasant consequences, as I would...I personally would use 8gr with that 225gr bullet ONLY IF your bore is .429 or larger...and ONLY for hunting.

The main question is...is it going to be an accurate load?

[Ranch 13]

You might think about using a 205 gr cast bullet .430 diameter pushed with bludot,2400,4227 or 5744,  elocuty will be better with the slower powders from the rifle barrel,and will give the results that made the 44wcf famous for 150 years

[Bryan Austin]

You might think about using a 205 gr cast bullet .430 diameter pushed with bludot,2400,4227 or 5744,  elocuty will be better with the slower powders from the rifle barrel,and will give the results that made the 44wcf famous for 150 years

This is correct. If you really want to see the 44-40 perform the way it used to, revert back to lead bullets and either use Swiss FFFg, or something no slower than Reloder 7. Reloder 7 is my preferred powder out to 300 yards. Unique is my preferred powder for revolvers.

[Ranch 13]

I prefer Olde Eynsford 3 f, but as it's not readily available...😀

[medic44]

Pressures can vary significantly with different weight and design bullets when using the exact same charge of powder. During my amateur testing, Unique yielded to following results;

8.5gr of Unique, using a 200gr JHP Speer #4425 SOFT JACKETED HOLLOW POINT. 1,164fps @ 11,363psi (13,431cup), Lyman's 49th Max Load for Group I weak action rifles is listed as 13,300cup.

If I recall correctly the Speer 4425 is a .429" diameter bullet with a profile and meplat matching that of the 44-40 design. Using a heavier bullet, and a bullet of a different profile design (distance from the lands when chambered, etc), along with a larger diameter can significantly increase the pressures.

Let me ask you this, what pressures are you willing to consistently use in your 73" replica, regardless of what is advised? You are going to have to ignore velocity, because I can assure you that you will exceed "max" pressures long before the original 1,325fps velocity is replicated with that powder.

However, if you are willing to accept the possible unpleasant consequences, as I would...I personally would use 8gr with that 225gr bullet ONLY IF your bore is .429 or larger...and ONLY for hunting.

The main question is...is it going to be an accurate load?

Think I will settle on the 200gr or 185gr... I can use the xtf jhp. that would be 8gr Unique with xtf bullet for hunting. I also found Buffalo bore ammo in lead hollow point 185gr. I dont want to tear my gun up just dont think cowboy action loads will kill a deer. My shot distance is about 75 yrd max for where i will use it.

[Bryan Austin]

Think I will settle on the 200gr or 185gr... I can use the xtf jhp. that would be 8gr Unique with xtf bullet for hunting. I also found Buffalo bore ammo in lead hollow point 185gr. I dont want to tear my gun up just dont think cowboy action loads will kill a deer. My shot distance is about 75 yrd max for where i will use it.

Certainly!

A 200gr lead bullet will work fine on deer at 75 yards when loaded correctly, it is what I use. No need for all of the fancy stuff. The flat meplat acts like a hollowpoint. Even the jacketed soft point acts the same.

https://sites.google.com/view/44winchester/ballistics-handloading/pressure-testing/gel-tests