1860 question

[tjiann]

I'm new here, so thanks for your patience. I'm examining an 1860 Spencer carbine. Here is a photo of the barrel underside. Early serial number, but what would the hand cut dovetail mod have been for? It does have the cabine forestock with screw and barrel band. Thanks!

[Cap'n Redneck]

The only reason I can see for the dovetail cuts would be to fasten a civilian type halfstock forend.

Both the military carbine (halfstock) and the military rifle (fullstock) version had barrel bands to hold the forend.

[DJ]

Also, this looks like a Model 1865.

[El Supremo]

Hello, Tjiann:

Welcome and thanks for sharing.

Please:
Is that a centerfire upper block?  If so who's?
Have you shot it and if so load and results?
All the best,

El Supremo/Kevin Tinny

[tjiann]

Thanks for the responses and insights.

[tjiann]

Hello, Tjiann:

Welcome and thanks for sharing.

Please:
Is that a centerfire upper block?  If so who's?
Have you shot it and if so load and results?
All the best,

El Supremo/Kevin Tinny
Hi Kevin.

Hi Kevin,
I have not shot it yet. I'm one of the N-SSA guys from the 2nd US Regulars that are trying to get a couple of new Spencer teams together. I bought this gun from a former N-SSA person. It has a converted block for CF.

Regards,

Tim I.

[El Supremo]

Thanks, Tim:
Know of you and your dedication.
Lots of the same friends.
Happy to assist if stuck.
El Supremo/Kevin Tinny

[tjiann]

As an update, I believe that this gun is an 1860 that was converted to a 20" barrel. I did find out that the original block was converted to centerfire by Bob Hoyt when he lined the barrel.

[El Supremo]

Thanks, Tim:

Update:
Thanks for sharing that you measured the twist at 36" and that it was Hoyt's selection for the Rapine 515375 bullet.

Please share the recent photo's of the lock and lock inlettng here.
The photo's you texted me show a ring over the mainspring screw. 
That is one way to reduce the sear spring leaf pressure and pull weight, IF the full cock gap between the leaves is maintained.  Yours has the gap.
Also, the square threads are visible at the forward end of the outer magazine tube. 

Smiles,
El Supremo/Kevin Tinny

[tjiann]

Hi Kevin,

The stock was from S&S and the previous owner finished it. I'm not sure of the twist. Previous owner said Bob set the twist to shoot his Moose bullet well.

[Arizona Trooper]

Tijian, if you need a pickup at the N-SSA nationals I am available. We only have 2 Spencers on our team, and both of them are mine. I've shot lots of repeater matches, but never with an all Spencer team.

[tjiann]

Tijian, if you need a pickup at the N-SSA nationals I am available. We only have 2 Spencers on our team, and both of them are mine. I've shot lots of repeater matches, but never with an all Spencer team.

Arizona Trooper, please message me with your contact info. We are trying to field a couple of teams and would love to shoot with you and other folks. Thanks!

[tjiann]

Thanks, Tim:

Update:
Thanks for sharing that you measured the twist at 36" and that it was Hoyt's selection for the Rapine 515375 bullet.

Please share the recent photo's of the lock and lock inlettng here.
The photo's you texted me show a ring over the mainspring screw. 
That is one way to reduce the sear spring leaf pressure and pull weight, IF the full cock gap between the leaves is maintained.  Yours has the gap.
Also, the square threads are visible at the forward end of the outer magazine tube. 

Smiles,
El Supremo/Kevin Tinny

Kevin,

Photos attached. One note. The twist was nominally set for the Moose 515-375 bullet. Not sure if that matters much compared to Rapine.

Thanks!

Tim

[El Supremo]

Thanks, Tim:

Helpful photo's which show the mainspring screw collar that raises the sear leaf a bit, and the essential gap between the leaves.

The Accurate 51-320S, 51-325KT and 51-350S bullets with large lube grooves shoot well in 36" twists to at least 100 yds. 

I asked Accurate in an email and in my order instructions to include that the 51-325KT was experimental for twist/stability tests, and that the narrow meplat/nose flat probably rubs on primers during cycling. My tests confirm tip rubbing on dry marked primers cycled from the magazine. BEWARE, please.  Thanks.

El Supremo/Kevin Tinny

[toppkatt]

Just a clarification. I owned this carbine before selling it. The CF conversion was NOT done by Bobby Hoyt. While I'm sure he is capable of doing the conversion he's really not set up to do that type of machine work. Bobby DID line the barrel, as part of the type of work that he does so well. If I recall correctly the barrel when I acquired it was more of a smooth bore/shotgun barrel.  He was told the mold we would be using  ( a Moose mold 515-375 ) and he created the liner for that bullet weight and conformation.
 
On this particular block the CF conversion was done by my friend and former team member on the 1st MD Cavalry C.S.A., John Grainger at my shop using his and my tooling. In addition to converting the block, he proceeded to analyze and improve the trigger and lock mechanism. Before I obtained the Armi Sport reproduction, which I used in the Spencer matches, this was going to be my carbine for that match. After acquiring the reproduction, John was kind enough to redo his efforts as it related to the trigger and lock work on my reproduction carbine so my reproduction would function as smoothly and effortlessly as the original did after he worked on it.
.
He must have done good work because when our team shot in the Spencer matches out of the 6 matches we entered we took first place 5 times. After our first match it became our goal to reduce our elapsed time at each match and for the most part we did. At the last match we shot we reached 731.9 seconds.  ( (https://static1.squarespace.com/static/54db881ce4b0486db510c47b/t/67088ca0b6286e0ae188126d/1728613536897/150th-team-spencer-results.pdf ). Interestingly, three ( 2 reproduction and 1 original) of the four Spencer's on the line for our team were ones John had worked on to improve the trigger and smooth the functioning of the action. An important tip, practice reloading using the Blakeslee tubes. These can remarkably decrease your times if you learn how to reload fast.
 
I hope your carbine does as well for you and you get the enjoyment out of it that I received from mine. I hope you and your team get to bring home the gold!

Sinceerely,
Ron

[toppkatt]

Nice clear photos BTW. Kudos.

[tjiann]

Just a clarification. I owned this carbine before selling it. The CF conversion was NOT done by Bobby Hoyt. While I'm sure he is capable of doing the conversion he's really not set up to do that type of machine work. Bobby DID line the barrel, as part of the type of work that he does so well. If I recall correctly the barrel when I acquired it was more of a smooth bore/shotgun barrel.  He was told the mold we would be using  ( a Moose mold 515-375 ) and he created the liner for that bullet weight and conformation.
 
On this particular block the CF conversion was done by my friend and former team member on the 1st MD Cavalry C.S.A., John Grainger at my shop using his and my tooling. In addition to converting the block, he proceeded to analyze and improve the trigger and lock mechanism. Before I obtained the Armi Sport reproduction, which I used in the Spencer matches, this was going to be my carbine for that match. After acquiring the reproduction, John was kind enough to redo his efforts as it related to the trigger and lock work on my reproduction carbine so my reproduction would function as smoothly and effortlessly as the original did after he worked on it.
.
He must have done good work because when our team shot in the Spencer matches out of the 6 matches we entered we took first place 5 times. After our first match it became our goal to reduce our elapsed time at each match and for the most part we did. At the last match we shot we reached 731.9 seconds.  ( (https://static1.squarespace.com/static/54db881ce4b0486db510c47b/t/67088ca0b6286e0ae188126d/1728613536897/150th-team-spencer-results.pdf ). Interestingly, three ( 2 reproduction and 1 original) of the four Spencer's on the line for our team were ones John had worked on to improve the trigger and smooth the functioning of the action. An important tip, practice reloading using the Blakeslee tubes. These can remarkably decrease your times if you learn how to reload fast.
 
I hope your carbine does as well for you and you get the enjoyment out of it that I received from mine. I hope you and your team get to bring home the gold!

Sinceerely,
Ron

Thanks for the explanation/clarification Ron! All I can say is I'm happy to have this gun.

Tim