RCBS Cowboy Dies for 44-40

[MikeM.]

Is there an advantage in using RCBS cowboy dies over their standard dies or even LEE dies? I have the standard set and a LEE set and was gonna buy a set of cowboy ones but can't seem to find a set anywhere.

[Abilene]

Not a direct answer, but here is my experience with the Lees.  Seating straight was always iffy with .428 or .429 bullets.  I had already replaced the powder funnel with the one from 44 mag.  I finally bought a used RCBS seater die (not Cowboy) and that did the trick.  I do use the Lee FCD.

I seem to recall RCBS dropping production on the Cowboy dies, which may be why you can't find any.

[MikeM.]

Dang! I wish I could find a set

[MikeM.]

Ran an ad in the classified section, we will see if there are any out there for sale....Thanks!!

[Crow Choker]

I'll start out by saying I've never reloaded 44-40 or have ever owned one, but have reloaded thousands of rounds of both jacketed and cast lead bullets. When I got into reloading 44 Colt blk powder rounds, I purchased a RCBS Cowboy Die set listed for 44 Russian to 44 Special. Have loaded quite a few 44 Colt and 44 Spec all with cast lead bullets. I've read alot that the 44-40 is a delicate round to load due to its neck design and thinness of its case walls.

What RCBS touts about the cowboy dies is that they won't cause the shaving of lead from lead bullets while seating. This is mostly due to an expander die plug that is .?" diameter larger than a normal 44 caliber die set that expands the case mouth a bit more than a normal expander die. Of course the cowboy sets are the dull gold finish vs the polished steel silver of normal sets, they are pretty.

The larger expander die works like Lymans M dies which do and have the same effect. I have 4 Lyman M dies that I use for reloading my WW1/WW2 MISPEC rifles from four countries using cast lead bullets (reduced powder loads). Prior to getting the RCBS Cowboy die set for 44's, I loaded thousands of rounds of 38/357 loads using cast lead bullets (jacketed also) and in doing so for the lead bullets, I always just turned the expander die down a bit further than if using jacketed bullets. Same effect as using the slightly larger Cowboy Die expander. Set right, shaved lead from the bullets can be eliminated. I have read that the RCBS CB dies are a bit larger overall than standard, but nothing official from RCBS or any other reliable site/journal. I've been at the reloading game since Feb of 1976.

I did have to order and use a separate 44 Magnum bullet seating and crimping die when I bought a Ruger Super Blackhawk 44 Mag revolver as the Cowboy die sets seater/crimper couldn't be adjusted high enough for the longer 44 Mag case to seat the bullets. The carbide sizer and expander worked fine, when loading 44 bullets for 44 Mag rounds, I just didn't screw down the case mouth expander as far.

IMO the Cowboy dies work as designed no matter the caliber, but the same result can be gotten with standard dies for whatever caliber you are loading for just by lowering the expander die a bit more for lead bullets but you need to be careful not to go to far and weaken and/or split the mouth by over expanding. Just my experience and observations of nearly 49 years of reloading and working with all of the major brand of die sets. The RCBS Cowboy dies are great dies, are a bit more $ than standard ones, but get the job done.

[Crow Choker]

I seem to recall RCBS dropping production on the Cowboy dies, which may be why you can't find any.
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I haven't read anything about that Abilene, I checked and RCBS is still listing and showing them on their website. Whether they don't update on a regular basis couldn't advise.

[Abilene]

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I haven't read anything about that Abilene, I checked and RCBS is still listing and showing them on their website. Whether they don't update on a regular basis couldn't advise.
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I might be misremembering.  Maybe it was a profile crimp die that was being discontinued.  I know it was something that people liked but I don't have one.

[Crow Choker]

I did check both MidwayUSA and Midsouth Shooters Supply and both show no Cowboy dies in stock. Coincidence, just selling alot of them, or maybe some truth to what you advised, can't say. Didn't check any other suppliers.

[King Medallion]

Many many lustrums ago when I started loading the 44-40 with Lyman dies, I just called Lyman and had them send me a .429 expander plug and that was all I needed as I was loading .428 bullets. Now I use the RCBS Cowboys dies and use .429 bullets, sized down from .430 with a Lee sizer die. I haven't measured the expander plug in the Cowboy die ass it works just fine. I also used to use the Lee FCD but have switched to the Redding Profile Crimp die, I just like that crimp better, my preference.

[MikeM.]

I, too, am shooting .429 bullets sized down from.430 ones with a LEE sizing die. What size plug should I ask LEE or RCBS to send me? I'll eventually find a set of cowboy dies tho, it is now a quest!!

[Crow Choker]

Good luck on yer quest MikeM. Just out of curiosity I searched about every shooting forum, shooting supply online outfit, gun auction, eBay, etc I could think of plus others that came up on the web for RCBS Cowboy 44-40 dies with no hits. All of the 'new sellers' showed out of stock. Saw sales for used CB dies (not 44-40) here and there, but what Abilene mentioned about RCBS discontinuing may be.

 FWIW "RCBS Cowboy Dies" aren't needed to reload Cowboy ammo used for SASS, NCOWS, or any other lead bullet reloads I'm sure you are aware of that. They are nothing but standard dies with a furnished larger diameter case mouth expander and with a soft gold finish. Good idea by RCBS to market them to "Cowboy" shooters. IMO that's what they were, a marketing product. Thousands of rounds were loaded before RCBS introduced them and thousands will continue to be reloaded if RCBS discontinued them. They were a great marketing ploy, sort of like the artificial fish bait outfits introducing new lures that claim if ya don't have a few you'll never catch fish as well if ya don't buy a few.

 Screwing down standard die set expanders, buying a Lyman 'M Die', or ordering a larger diameter expander from whatever die brand ya have will have the same result as the RCBS Cowboy Die set. Alot cheaper route too. Nothing wrong with the Cowboy Dies, but an expensive solution just for the expander die and gold finish. If RCBS has discontinued the Cowboy Dies from their inventory I'm curious as to why. All kinds of scenarios could be typed about that.

[Hair Trigger Jim]

Is the sizer the same with the cowboy dies, or do they size the brass down a little less?

[Hair Trigger Jim]

Lee is now selling "M" style expander plugs.  You could order a .44 Spl/Mag expander plug and put it in your existing dies.  Here's a link to it on Titan Reloading's page (because I found that faster than on Lee's page):

https://www.titanreloading.com/product/lee-se2410-pm-exp-plug-44-spl-mag-m-style/

You could also order basically the same thing from NOE; they've been making stepped "M" style expander plugs for several years, which can be used in a Lee expander die in place of the factory plug.  But now Lee got around to offering basically the same thing themselves.

[MikeM.]

OK, honestly I have never had any problems reloading .429 bullets with either my LEE or my RCBS dies. My expander opens the case to .431 according to my caliper. Does it need to be bigger?

[Hair Trigger Jim]

In that case, you probably don't need to buy anything!  (Maybe another gun?)

[Trailrider]

I have always loaded .44-40 with the regular RCBS dies, using .430" bullets, but substituting the expander plug from an RCBS .44 Magnum set, which probably can be ordered separately. Hodgedon has apparently acquired RCBS, but is keeping RCBS in Oroville, CA. Hopefully, they can still provide components for their dies.
Happy New Year, Pards!

[Crow Choker]

I seem to recall RCBS dropping production on the Cowboy dies, which may be why you can't find any.

Is the sizer the same with the cowboy dies, or do they size the brass down a little less?

Good luck on yer quest MikeM. Just out of curiosity I searched about every shooting forum, shooting supply online outfit, gun auction, eBay, etc I could think of plus others that came up on the web for RCBS Cowboy 44-40 dies with no hits. All of the 'new sellers' showed out of stock. Saw sales for used CB dies (not 44-40) here and there, but what Abilene mentioned about RCBS discontinuing may be.

Read several threads on 'Cast Boolits' and 'SASS' from late summer/early fall and it appears RCBS 'has' discontinued/dropped the Cowboy line of dies from production. One thread on SASS has a download of a message sent to the poster from someone at RCBS that the Cowboy Dies have been discontinued for lack of sales and when current inventory is gone, no plans to reintroduce. Some thought that the recent sales by VISTA (who owned RCBS) to the Hodgdon Powder Company may have triggered the discontinuation. That sale was back in May of this year.

 Alot of water over the dam since Fred Huntington started the RCBS line years ago, back in the 40's. Omark (Speer bullets), Blount, Alliant, Vista all owned them. Believe it was Omark (Speer) that owned them back in the 70's when I got into reloading.

 Out of curiosity again I did some further search's of on online sellers and all either show not in stock or discontinued. One outfit had a set of 38/40's for sale and that was it. Another outfit showed out of stock with a July 2025 date of restock, guess they'll have to modify their website. A number of posters on Cast Boolits and SASS mentioned the use of Lyman's M die and that RCBS offers larger diameter expanders for sale that fit in their standard dies. Can't say if buying a separate expander Lyman expander plug will fit in a RCBS or any other brand of dies expander dies. The die holes/threads on the various brands of dies are not always universal.

 A number of posters on Cast Boolits and SASS commented from their observations that the Cowboy sizer die sizes the case the same dimensions as a regular set of reloading dies. The Cowboy dies were offered in both standard and carbide. Some say a carbide die will size a case smaller than a standard die (have to lube case), some say not accurate. I've never noticed any difference, all of my handgun dies are now carbide, hated the rolling and cleanup of lube. Wish rifle dies could be carbide.

[Hair Trigger Jim]

A bunch of helpful info.  Thanks Crow Choker.

[MikeM.]

Thanks guys ! I have enjoyed the information! Happy New Year!! Oh!, Does anybody make a carbide 44-40 die?

[Crow Choker]

Thanks guys ! I have enjoyed the information! Happy New Year!! Oh!, Does anybody make a carbide 44-40 die?

Happy New Year your way also.   I never really thought about it, never having a 44-40, but due to the case design of the 44-40 I would assume not. Got curious on that also and checked the four major die outfits (RCBS, Hornady, Lee, and Redding) and all of their 44-40 dies are polished steel, not carbide, necessitating the lubing of the case prior to sizing. I did notice that some of the online shooting sources outfits that still had the 44-40 RCBS Cowboy Dies on their sites all showed them having a polished steel sizer die. Carbide for straight wall only. I assume some of the other tapered late 1800 and early 1900 designed cartridges for handgun (and carry over for rifle) are in the same boat.

Not much has been said about Redding dies on this thread but of the 8 calibers of handguns and 9 calibers of rifle I have and reload for, alot of the dies are Redding. Good quality die's that carry a great warranty and they have great service when ya call them. I do have a good collection of RCBS, some Hornady and only one Lee. That Lee is for two 7.62x54 Russian Mosin Nagnat WW2 rifle's, ugly design but accurate and great shooters. Shoot alot of cast bullets through them. Shooting European surplus ammo through those Ruskie's are a real shoulder banger. Maybe that's why the Ruskie's drank alot of Vodka. Reloaded jacketed and reduced cast loads are more pleasant to shoot. No problem with the Lee Die, just never got into them. I do have four of Lee's Factory Crimp dies I use alot for straight wall revolver reloads, love them.