Cimarron Firearms Winchester 1887

[Two Bit Charlie]

Does anyone have any experience with the new Cimarrons 1887 shotgun? I know it's made in China. But I believe it's made to Cimarrons spec's. I'm interested in one, but would like to know more about it. How's the availability?

Thank You
Reed "Two-Bit Charlie" Van Ness

[Abilene]

It is matte finish, but I like the way they put a CFA logo on the side that is very similar to the WRA of originals.  I've heard they seem to be pretty functional out of the box.  I believe they are currently available in 20" and 26".

[DeaconKC]

Your LGS should have no trouble getting one for you.

[Begle1]

I love mine. No mechanical problems. It always seems to do the job if I beat on it hard enough; all of the ejection is in the last very little bit of lever throw so you must be a dominant gentleman with the gun.

I hate doing the "reach-around" on 97's, and I hate the violent jerky motions of a side-by-side, so I'm thrilled to be an 87 guy.

I've been roll crimping ammo for it and that does makes loading it significantly easier.

I'm far from a competitive shooter and I've been using a bone stock Cimarron 20" for a few months. It's a fun juxtaposition between how delicately the rounds need to be placed into the gun to load two at once, versus how hard the lever has to be worked to eject them.

I only have a few hundred live rounds through mine but thousands of dry cycled dummy rounds for practice.

[cpt dan blodgett]

I love mine. No mechanical problems. It always seems to do the job if I beat on it hard enough; all of the ejection is in the last very little bit of lever throw so you must be a dominant gentleman with the gun.

I hate doing the "reach-around" on 97's, and I hate the violent jerky motions of a side-by-side, so I'm thrilled to be an 87 guy.

I've been roll crimping ammo for it and that does makes loading it significantly easier.

I'm far from a competitive shooter and I've been using a bone stock Cimarron 20" for a few months. It's a fun juxtaposition between how delicately the rounds need to be placed into the gun to load two at once, versus how hard the lever has to be worked to eject them.

I only have a few hundred live rounds through mine but thousands of dry cycled dummy rounds for practice.

Have you shot any factory star crimped shells thru it? 

[Begle1]

Yes, I started with factory bulk target Rio's and am now using those same Rio's cut down and roll crimped.

[cpt dan blodgett]

Yes, I started with factory bulk target Rio's and am now using those same Rio's cut down and roll crimped.

Did the RIOs eject ok.  I have a IAC 87 lassiter did it magic on and with most factory loads it will eject just fine, found it did not like Fiocci Translucent a bit longer than other brands.  Rather than fight the problem started roll crimping as well.

Just ordered a 26 inch Cimarron should hit FFL 27th or 28th.  Will post an update after I try to shoot sporting clays with it using some star crimped and roll crimped, may even slip in a factory load or two.  I will even try Fiocci Translucent factory, star crimped reloads also but will be sure to load them in mag and not chamber so no big deal if do not eject.

[Begle1]

Did the RIOs eject ok. 

Just ordered a 26 inch Cimarron should hit FFL 27th or 28th.  Will post an update after I try to shoot sporting clays with it using some star crimped and roll crimped, may even slip in a factory load or two. 

You make me think.
I've been using roll-crimped Rio's for shooting, and roll-crimped transparent Fiocci dummy rounds for practice.
Ejection is about equally spotty on all of the rounds, but I've been under the impression that was all due to me not running the lever hard enough.

If I focus on running the gun hard, then the ejection problems tend to go away. BUT, perhaps another brand of shell would eject better and make me even happier. Makes me want to try.

I thought the roll crimping was just supposed to make loading easier. Is it supposed to help ejection too?



I hope you know Cimarron's 26" doesn't have chokes? I would like to know what it'd take to thread chokes into them. The barrels are so thick I'd think it would be an easy job.

[Cap'n Redneck]

The '87 was not originally designed around the 2-3/4" shells, but rather the 2-1/2" or 2-5/8" shells.
Unless Cimarron has made changes to the receiver a 2-3/4" star-crimped fired hull might catch on the 12 o'clock position of the rear of the chamber and mess up extraction.
Cutting down star-crimped shells and roll-crimping them should fix this issue.

However, my experience with a "Norinco 1887 Cowboy" (which is in fact more correctly a copy of the Win. 1901 with it's jointed lever) has taught me that the stiffness of the fired hull also plays an integral part in successful extraction. 
I've found that all-brass CBC/MagTech shells work the best. 
Second best are roll-crimped paper shells. 
Third (last) comes roll-crimped plastic shells.
There might be differences between different brands of plastic shells, but I've gone for all-brass shells and haven't looked back since.

[cpt dan blodgett]

My Lassiter worked over IAC 97 will eject Federal, Winchester Remington star crimped shell generally pretty well if you work the lever like you mean it.  Fiocci Translucent shells do not want to eject and I believe they are just a tiny bit longer than other brands just enough that they do not clear the front of the receiver.  All the roll crimped shells including aforementioned Fiocci work just fine as they are a lot shorter and do not hang up on front of receiver.  I plan on shooting the Cimarron 26 inch gun Thursday for sporting clays and will let you know how it functions.  Shells that I know do not eject my IAC such as Fiocci Translucent I will load into the mag with a known ejector being the first shell in the chamber so I should not have ejection issues and miss chances to shoot at the second bird.

Will give range report after I see how it all shakes out.

[Begle1]

However, my experience with a "Norinco 1887 Cowboy" (which is in fact more correctly a copy of the Win. 1901 with it's jointed lever) has taught me that the stiffness of the fired hull also plays an integral part in successful extraction. 
I've found that all-brass CBC/MagTech shells work the best. 
Second best are roll-crimped paper shells. 
Third (last) comes roll-crimped plastic shells.
There might be differences between different brands of plastic shells, but I've gone for all-brass shells and haven't looked back since.

I just want to say you're a terrible influence, because now I'll need to buy some all-brass shotgun shells and try them out.

I logistically appreciate the idea of using large pistol primers on them. Are there published recipes anywhere for loading all-brass shot shells?

[wildman1]

My 87 has trouble ejecting Browning sg shells after firing they are slightly longer than Gun Clubs, AA's etc.
wM1

[Coffinmaker]

  Begle1

Nope.  Never have I seen any "published" load data for all Brass hulls.  There is especially NO loading data for Smokeless in MagTech hulls.  Magtech also publishes their all Brass Hulls are NOT suitable for smokeless powder.

My personal loading for All Brass Hulls (Magtech) is pretty simple.  I load 40Gr 2F APP, a Ballistic Products Spitfire Wad for a one ounce pay load, or a Ballistic 1044 wad with the petals cut for a one ounce payload, an ounce of shot and cap it with an overshot card.  Care must be taken with the primer seating process.  Just seating primers on a flat surface will result in Fail to Fire.  I prime my MagTech with a Lee Classic Single Stage press with RCBS 12Ga dies.

[Cap'n Redneck]

The all-brass shells are of the "balloon-head" variety, and not solid-head as modern paper- and plastic shells.   Loading balloon-head cases with smokeless can result in excessive pressures that lead to bulging or ruptures of the case.
Smokeless also needs some resistance from a roll-crimp to combust reliably, and roll-crimping will shorten the life of these thin-walled brass cases dramatically.

I load blackpowder exclusively, 11ga. wads and cards down in the case and a 10ga. "overpowder" cardboard wad on top of the shot.  The tight fit of the thick 10ga. card will ensure that it stays in place during recoil.