Black powder buckshot - shot weight versus birdshot

[Flinch Morningwood]

I have recently acquired a OO buckshot mold and have cranked out a few using a Lyman #2 mix.  Know I can't shoot it in matches but like shooting them at the range.

For CAS, I shoot 12 ga brass shot shells with 87 gr. 1 1/2F powder and 1 1/4 oz shot.

Should the weight of the buckshot equal the weight (approximately) of the birdshot if I use the same powder amount?  Or should I just use 9 every time?

In the brass shot shell reloading book, it doesn't distinguish between shot sizes...it just says "Weight of Shot."

My birdshot load weighs out at 1.24 oz...10 of my buckshot comes in about 1.14 oz.

Any input appreciated!

[RoyceP]

I would say the loading manual makes perfect sense. For X amount of weight you need X amount of powder. What size the shot is should not matter.

[Coffinmaker]

   Flinch

This is going to depend entirely on what you're trying to accomplish.  If you're loading "just for CAS" the load you mention is somewhat "heavy."  Heavier than necessary actually.  If, on the other hand, your loading to hunt game that takes "Buckshot" your probably in the ball park.

For CAS, in All Brass hulls, a load of 40Gr (weight) 2f or 1f with 7/8 ounce of shot will get the job done just fine.

The loading book your using does not take into account what/where your use is and cites a basic load that won't harm a shotgun.  Your 87Gr load will tend to cause the Peanut Gallery to move well away from you on the line.  It's not a "bad" load, just isn't necessary for the Game.

[Cap'n Redneck]

I guess the following information should be seen as "for entertainment only", and not as loading data.

On pages 97-98 of John Boessenecker's book "When law was in the holster" is a quote by Wyatt Earp on the shotguns and buckshot loads he used as a Wells-Fargo shotgun messenger.

The short version follows:

"The barrels are not more than two-thirds the length of ordinary gun barrels.
The weapon furthermore differs from the ordinary gun in being much heavier as to barrel,
thus enabling it to carry a big charge of buckshot.
No less than 21 buckshot are loaded into each barrel.
...As for range - well, at 100 yards, I have killed a coyote with one of these guns, and
what will kill a coyote will kill a stage robber any day." 

Mr. Earp does not state wether the shotgun he used was a muzzleloader or a breechloader, but from online biographical data he must have worked for Wells-Fargo in California for a few months in 1879, between his working as an assistant marshal in Dodge City, KS (1878-79) and his moving to Tombstone, A.T. in 1879. 
Boessenecker states that the Remington Arms Co. started making reasonably priced breechloading shotguns in 1874, and W-F & Co. bought Remington guns exclusively until the 1880s, when they also bought Parker guns and L.C. Smith guns.

The quote does not state the weight or dimension of the 21 buckshot, and I'm not even sure if there's room for 7 tiers of 3 buckshot in a brass 12 ga. shell?

The killing of a coyote at 100 yards seems to me to be a lucky shot.

[Coffinmaker]

  Cap'n Redneck 

In all honesty, I would find Mr. Earp's cited statements to be somewhat fanciful and something one might have read in a "dime novel" as opposed to reality.

I don't know whom Boessenecker is.  Never heard of him.  However, ALL of the histories I have found/read indicate Wells-Fargo and Company never Bought/Provided shotguns.  Any Shotguns.  Wells-Fargo shotgun guards were expected to provide their own Fire Arms.  Those supposed Real "Wells-Fargo" antique shotguns on sale have been found to be well executed Faque's of no particular value.

Just my take.

PS:  'Most forgot.  No.  There isn't room for 7 three shot tiers in a 12Ga Brassie.  Don't quote me on a 10Ga.   

[Cap'n Redneck]

I had to test-fit these buckshot loading-data & components myself.
CBC/Magtech 12 gauge all-brass balloon-head cases for large pistol primers.
Hornady #0 buckshot, .320" diameter, 49,5 grains weight each pellet.
(As Coffinmaker stated, 21 buckshot will not fit in a 12 ga. shell; they take up a good 3/4 of the internal space, leaving very little room for wads and powder.)
I find that 12 buckshot is about as much as a 12 ga. brass shell will hold. 
That is about equal to a heavy 42 gram huntingload of birdshot. 
Propelled by about 90 grains of blackpowder and fired from a cylinder-bore shotgun of modern manufacture this should make for a fun load on coyotes and "steel Comanches"..!

I have a sturdy Pedersoli 10 ga. percussion doublebarrel shotgun.
It is a likely candidate for duplicating Mr. Earps "21-buckshot-coyote-loads" once the weather improves...

The late Norm Flayderman verifies that Wells-Fargo did in fact buy substantial numbers of  shotguns to arm their messengers / guards.  This info can be found on pages 740-741 in the 9th. edition of his "Guide to Antique American Firearms & their values".  He does also admit that the market has been flooded with fake "Wells-Fargo"-marked coach-guns.