Another clone authenticity question

[CWC]

I know this has been asked before, but the latest thread I could find was a few years old, and it seems that the manufacturers are changing offerings all the time.

So I'm spiraling down the rabbit hole of SAA clone options, and hoping you guys can help me out. I'm looking for the most authentic reproduction of a mid-1870's Colt. I thought it was going to be as simple as making sure I got a bullseye ejector head, cylinder pin retained by a screw, shallow v-notch rear sight, and 4-click action. Then I found people discussing Uberti frames being larger than the originals, different grip sizes (army vs navy size???), different barrel stamping from various importers, etc.

Back in the 90's I know there were reproductions being made that were 100% parts interchangeable with original Colts. Is anyone still making them with that level of attention to authenticity? If not, what should I be looking for on the used market?

[Kent Shootwell]

EMF Hartford model is what you want.

[Professor Marvel]

Plus one and like button to monsiuer kent

[CWC]

EMF Hartford model is what you want.

Thanks. I'll keep an eye out for one. They were made by ASM, correct?

[Major 2]

Thanks. I'll keep an eye out for one. They were made by ASM, correct?

Pietta - EMF is a Filli Pietta Company.

[Niederlander]

I've had a Cavalry Model since about '90 or '91.  Yes, they were interchangeable with Colt, but be prepared to fix some stuff.  Mine now wears a Colt barrel, Colt 1st Generation hammer, Colt trigger, Colt bolt,......you get the idea.  On the other hand, it looks and shoots great!

[Niederlander]

Pietta - EMF is a Filli Pietta Company.

I believe the ones they're talking about are the ASM manufactured ones.  Of course, ASM has been out of business for years.

[Coffinmaker]

  YEPPER FER SURE

PLUS ONE fer Kent.

Those early Hartford marked guns came out of the ASM factory and another maker I've forgotten.  Those early Hartford guns were righteous close to an SAA. 

After Boyd held his competition for a new "Great Western" he settled on F.ILL Pietta.  The current Pietta made Great Western II is the closest Replica of the SAA.  Some parts will interchange with a Colt, but in the overall scheme of things, the Pietta offering is actually better made than current Colt guns and (In my Opine) is a much better value for dollar.

There is another problem of course, those ASM manufactured guns had some real serious quality control problems.  Real Serious.

[CWC]

Wow, I'm pretty bummed to hear the GW2 is the most authentic current production. It was actually what inspired me to start this post in the first place. It looks like they're offering mostly fantasy guns. The only "black powder frame" that I saw was only offered with an antique finish. And then the other offerings seem to all have something weird about them; engraved cattle brands, oversized grips, competition triggers, modified sights, etc. Did they at one time offer a GW2 in just a standard authentic Colt configuration?

If I want to try to hunt up an old ASM is there a known range of serial numbers to seek out or avoid? Or were they pretty much hit or miss for their entire production run?

[Major 2]

pretty much hit or miss for their entire production run imported from Italy.

However. when American Western Arms - and Dave Anderson was assembling ASM parts,
You knew you had something good. How close you might ask ? Colt sued them out of existence.
So. if you can find a Mid to late 90's AWA gun, Bob's you Uncle. 

[Niederlander]

My ASM Hartford Model is serial #2552, so pretty early.  When they milled the groove for the front sight they went into the bore.  (Which would explain why the front sight kept coming off!)  Soft parts, etc., which is why a lot of it is Colt now.

[Coffinmaker]

  CWC

Your best bet is to browse the EMF web site for the different models of the GW II.  Short answer is yes.  Pietta still make basic GW II guns without all the fluff as well as guns with varying levels of bling.

Please understand, the main market for Replica SAA guns is SASS, CAS and NCOWS.  Pietta caters to "our" crowd more than basic shooters (minuscule market) but there are still some basic flavors and well as some real flash.  Best of luck with your pursuit.

[Abilene]

Like Coffinmaker says, there are still GW-II's that are "standard" SAA configuration.  Also, Cimarron's "Frontier" line is Pietta, essentially the same as GW-II's, including more BP-framed models.

[Cheyenne Logan]

Thr problem comes when you state you want authenticity to the mid 1870's....the frame will have to be an "old model" type frame, with the screw in the front of the frame to secure the cylinder pin. Pietta only makes a couple of models with this feature.

The Uberti is very close, the frame is not larger, the cylinder is....and the Old Model ones usually have the "4 Click" actions.

The ASM's turn up occasionally, and there is a pair of 5.5" 45Colt Old Models on Gunbroker now with a bid of 550.00...
item: 1071985196... bid is 555, but that's a bargain for a pair.......FYI not associated with this auction, just passing on information.

[CWC]

The Uberti is very close, the frame is not larger, the cylinder is...

Thanks for the info. I guess I misunderstood about the larger frame versus larger cylinder. Do Piettas also have a larger cylinder, or is that unique to Uberti? Is it due to needing the larger size for higher pressure modern smokeless loads?

[Coffinmaker]

  CWC

I don't have my "Book of Secrets" with me as I am on Mouse Safary and 1000 miles from home.  However:

The Uberti frame is slightly larger than a Colt in several dimensions, mainly to facilitate the Larger cylinder.  I don't actually know why Uberti builds their replica SAs with larger cylinders.  Perhaps someone closer to Cimarron such as Abilene can chime in on that.

Pietta cylinders are basically identical to Colt 1st and 2d Gen.  Overall, Pietta are VERY close to Colt although they are better built than recent Colt offerings.

The real annoying misnomer is the term "Clone."  None of the replica SAs are "Clones" of the originals.  Close. but no Ceegar.  I describe them as replicants or replicas.  You may get closer to true authenticity with Percussion guns, by both Pietta and Uberti although Uberti Colt Pattern Open Top guns have a serious flaw.  Some of Pietta's Percussion guns are also "not exactly."  Best of Luck.

I forgot to add, the term "Clone" was dreamed up by some "all knowing" magazine scribes in our past and unfortunately, the term stuck.  Some of us old school gunplumbers absolutely hate the term.