An outing with the Kirst-Strite '61

[Abilene]

I just realized it has been 3 years since I shot my Kirst-Konverted '61.  That's too long!  I posted about this gun when I first bought it in 2019.  Shot it in 5 matches at 4 clubs with no misses despite the unlined bore, but hey, it was SASS targets, so...

To re-cap, bought this from Jay Strite (Raven) when he retired.  He was a 'smith for Kirst for many years.  This was his personal '61 that wasn't shot much, mostly carried to shows as a demo.  It is totally defarbed of all markings and stamped with only the tiny Raven and Kirst-Strite stamps, plus s/n 1 on all assemblies.  He color case hardened it and charcoal blued the frame.  For every different model he built, '49, '51, '60 etc. he started with s/n 1 but this was the first of them all.  Mike Brackett thinned down the shoulder stock screws.

After the 1st four matches the hand spring broke.  Took me a long time, but I finally repaired that and shot it once more in 2021.  I've been wanting to get the barrel relined to .357 but have not found anyone to do it (Kirst doesn't any more).  I got the 2-position hand from Kirst a week ago and installed it - dropped right in, action feels smoother.  It still has 4 clicks (percussion guns and conversions should have 3) and hammer over-travel after that 4th click, but maybe that is the nature of a Kirst on a Colt?  Don't know, but couldn't tell the difference today between this gun and the Richards-Mason I teamed it up with when actually shooting.  And the timing is still right for loading/unloading through the gate.

A local is getting out of shooting and I bought a box of Bear Creek 148gr HBWC from him.  I loaded these, leaving .09" of bullet exposed at the mouth, with 2.3gr of Clays.  Again, no misses for today's match.  But I wanted to know the accuracy of this load a little better, so afterwards I put 5 rounds into around 2.5" group at approximately 7 yards, then reloaded and hit the 50-yard Cody Dixon target 4 out of 5 times.  So I'm happy! 

Now, reloading that round was a PITA with my setup.  My Lee measure won't reliably throw a charge of Clays that small, so I was dipping it, and the smallest (.3cc) dipper was a smidgen low, so I had to hand trickle onto the scale for each round.  I know Bear Creek now makes a hollow base bullet that would be more suitable (130gr I think?) but for now I have these.  My plan for now is to load these on the 550 next time I do .38's, and I will just load this bullet long so I can use the same charge of N320 that I use for my regular 125gr loads.  I will just have to turn in the seating stem a hair since these are max of 1.42" to fit in the Kirst (my 125gr are 1.44").  They will look funny with that big flat bullet sticking out, but I don't care.  For shooting BP, I will just load the same bullet, which has no lube grooves, and squirt butter-flavored Crisco into the front of the cylinder over the first two rounds, same as I've always done with my other BP pistol rounds.

It's not going to get shot a lot because of all the others in rotation (a nice problem) but way more than before!

The grip is new to the gun, it occurred to me that this being a steel frame pistola, the grip is actually a Model P grip, not Navy.  And I had a nice one available that came off another Model P that is currently sporting hard rubber eagle grips.  Anyway, I like them as is but will most likely strip them to an oil finish.

Oh yeah, the pics: far right, grandparent's wedding, far left, great grandparents, little girl on the right is my mom with two brothers. 

[Coffinmaker]

  Abilene

Nice.  VERY nice indeed.  Jay did really super work.

Added: Ah, Eable??  Did you really mean Edible??  Or, ah um ah . 

[Abilene]

Abilene

Nice.  VERY nice indeed.  Jay did really super work.

Added: Ah, Eable??  Did you really mean Edible??  Or, ah um ah . 

Ha!  Eagle grips.  Probably can't blame otto for that one.     But hmm, edible grips...might have something there.  You know, for the bad hunter.

[Marshal Will Wingam]

That's a fine looking pistol. Glad to hear it shoots well with the smooth bore bbl.

Those photos are nice to have. Great family history. I have one of each of my grandparents taken in 1888 when they were married. Thanks for sharing.

I like the pistol rack with the hockey puck.

[Black River Smith]

Abilene,

I see that you stated the revolver was 'defarbed', but do you know if it is a Uberti or Pietta?

Can't tell if the barrel is 7 1/2" or 8".

[Abilene]

Howdy BRS.  Both those pics were taken at an angle slightly closer to muzzle than grip which can make barrels look longer, but it is the standard 7.5"

It is Uberti because Jay told me so    but also the last 4 of the original s/n is stamped on the side of the grip frame inside, plus the matching full s/n starting with 'A' is still written inside the wood grip that came with it, which is how Uberti does it.  And besides all that, if it were Pietta then my Model P grip would not have fit.     He estimated it was 20 yrs old when he sold it to me.

[Coffinmaker]

  ALL

Most, if not all of Jay's conversions were built using Uberti guns as the donor.  I would presume Jay also fix'd the abhorrent Barrel to Arbor fit in the conversion process??  Abilene, you look at that??

MARSHALL WINGAM - Ah, Smooth Bore??  Really, Smooth Bore??  Ah not really.  Uberti Cap Guns are manufactured with a nominal .375 bore.  As an aside, or in addition:  With all of the .36 Cap Guns I have, have owned, have built, or shot (all of 'em), I used 148Gr Hollow Base Wadcutters.  My results, accuracy wise, mirror Abilene's results.  I got what I considered really great accuracy.  Never even tempted to have the barrels re-lined.  Just shooting HBWC is just too easy.

[Abilene]

ALL

Most, if not all of Jay's conversions were built using Uberti guns as the donor.  I would presume Jay also fix'd the abhorrent Barrel to Arbor fit in the conversion process??  Abilene, you look at that??

MARSHALL WINGAM - Ah, Smooth Bore??  Really, Smooth Bore??  Ah not really.  Uberti Cap Guns are manufactured with a nominal .375 bore.  As an aside, or in addition:  With all of the .36 Cap Guns I have, have owned, have built, or shot (all of 'em), I used 148Gr Hollow Base Wadcutters.  My results, accuracy wise, mirror Abilene's results.  I got what I considered really great accuracy.  Never even tempted to have the barrels re-lined.  Just shooting HBWC is just too easy.

Oh yeah!  Glad you reminded me, I meant to tell you that no, the arbor length was not addressed. I discovered that earlier on and use the split washer down the arbor hole trick. When he built this 25 years ago I don't think people talked about short arbors much.

I'm assuming you shoot APP with those HBWC's?  How long do you have to load them to get enough powder in there?

Thanks, Marshall Will.  I love having the old family photos, which meant so much more back then.  On the wall above the marriage photo is their large framed fancy marriage certificate.  My grandma died at 101, and my mom at 99.  My grandad on my mom's side died in his 50's and so did my dad.  I wonder whose genes I've got (well, I do look like my dad, but I've far outlived him!).  Anyways, the old pics make a nice background for these types of guns. 

[Marshal Will Wingam]

Those pics do look good with this type of gun.

[Abilene]

Marshal, Mike Harvey gave me that little display stand.  I've gotten a lot of use from it taking pics!  I think they used to use some at Texas Jacks, maybe still do.  It has the Cimarron rider and logo lasered into the top.  But anything longer than 5 1/2" won't fit, hence the hockey puck.  I have a collection of pucks from working in ice rinks as a video camera man for figure skating competitions.  The hockey guys couldn't get in the rink for the whole weekend so they were chomping at the bit to get in there immediately afterward.  While I'm packing equipment I think some of them would try to aim at my head (on the other side of the glass) with their slap shots.  If they did and any pucks went over the glass...my puck now. 
I know hockey is fun to watch but we had to use their locker rooms to store our stuff, and they have a superstition that requires them to not wash their clothes during the season.  Phew!

[Abilene]

Here's an older pic with the original grips.

[Hair Trigger Jim]

Well, I definitely learned something I didn't know about Abilene today!   

[Marshal Will Wingam]

Thanks for the background.

The new grips look better than the old ones.

[Coffinmaker]

  Hey Abilene

Yep.  I do run APP in my 38s.  The "Go-To" for suppositories is 3F.  2F just doesn't meter well thru a measure.  So my load for the 148Gr Wadcutters is 10 - 11Gr 3F APP.  Shoots just fine and makes the "smoke standard" with ease.

Most Forgot.  I am kinda surprised Jay didn't catch the Arbor issue but I don't think (as you don't) at the time he built that conversion, folks were real concerned nor addressing it.  I don't remember "Short Arbor Syndrome" being an issue until the Uberti built Open Top arrived and became popular.

[Cheyenne Logan]

  Great looking shooters, the gun, by not you.... ......'61 is a great gun, either percussion or
conversion.

[Rube Burrows]

Wow......what a beauty it is.

So, on the 61s is it as simple as reboring the barrel to .357 to allow you to shoot regular .38 special rounds?

[Abilene]

Wow......what a beauty it is.

So, on the 61s is it as simple as reboring the barrel to .357 to allow you to shoot regular .38 special rounds?

The .36 caliber guns ('51, '61, etc) have a bore .370-.375" so are already too big for .357 bullets which rattle down the bore.  You can have the bore bored out and a .357 liner installed (if you can find someone who still does this) or shoot the hollow-based bullets which will expand to fill the bore.

[Rube Burrows]

The .36 caliber guns ('51, '61, etc) have a bore .370-.375" so are already too big for .357 bullets which rattle down the bore.  You can have the bore bored out and a .357 liner installed (if you can find someone who still does this) or shoot the hollow-based bullets which will expand to fill the bore.

Oh, okay. I'd like a pair of 61s but have not really wanted one bad enough to mess with the HC bullets

[Coffinmaker]

Hey Rube!!

Simple solution!!  Shoot a pair of '61s percussion, source some EPP UG - 36 bullets and Klang away.  They'll run great on 11-12Gr 3F APP you betcha 

[Professor Marvel]

Hey Rube!!

Simple solution!!  Shoot a pair of '61s percussion, source some EPP UG - 36 bullets and Klang away.  They'll run great on 11-12Gr 3F APP you betcha 

OR you can cast and load the Lee .375 C&B bullets, they are similar to a heal based bullet
And one can load them into .38 cases and gently crimp the base with a plier-based tool.
Works great! At leats at cowboy distances