Starting out with Black Powder --.45-70 advice?

[Ranch 13]

 8.5 grains with that 300 grain bullet is pretty light jump up to 10 or 12 grains will help
 Switching to app you'll need to invest in case cleaning apparatus and dry racks etc as it does attack the brass
Going with straight black you won't need much of anything extra and it is surprising how well the coated bullets work with black
 But in all seriousness going with a slower burn powder and staying with the trapdoor loads your rifle will be fine with the bullets you have

[Doc Holloman]

8.5 grains with that 300 grain bullet is pretty light jump up to 10 or 12 grains will help
 Switching to app you'll need to invest in case cleaning apparatus and dry racks etc as it does attack the brass
Going with straight black you won't need much of anything extra and it is surprising how well the coated bullets work with black
 But in all seriousness going with a slower burn powder and staying with the trapdoor loads your rifle will be fine with the bullets you have

11.5gr of Unique is what I was using in my H&R and Pedersoli  trapdoors.  At the lowest sight setting I had to aim at the bottom edge of the targets.  With the same load in my rifle length Sharps I had to aim several inches below the target.

Which "slower burning" powder do you recommend.  My go-to rifle powder right now is IMR 3031, in part because it is the easiest to find right now. I use 4895 in 8mm Mauser for BAMM and 4198 (which I am almost out of) for 30-06 Garand loads.

What case cleaning is needed with APP?  With smokeless my brass just gets 12 hours in the tumbler with walnut media and about once every 2-3 months I add some Brasso to the media.

You are suggesting I could shoot the coated bullets with Goex f or ff without additional lube?

[Doc Holloman]

Thanks for the advice Abilene.  I have to go to Kerrville Tuesday and I think I saw APP at Gibsons.  The true BP shooters badmouth BP substitutes so much that I hadn't considered it. If it is there I qill pick some up and give it a try.  Will save me buying sesame seeds in bulk.  See you at Shindig.

Thanks to everyone for the advice,   A number of options to try.

No joy on APP locally.  All I have found is Triple 7 and that powder that shall not be named. I will see is someone I know going to Land Run might be able to pick up a a can or two for me (would you recommend f or ff?).  ISTR that Scarlett Darlin distributes it. I know it can be ordered but I don't want to buy a case on an experiment.

[Abilene]

I think APP only comes in FFg and FFFg.  I might guess FFg for big bore but I have no experience with that.  At these distances it won't matter much.  FFg is chunky and doesn't meter well through most measures and needs to be dipped.

As for brass, I clean just like BP.  Rinse it with anything that has water in it, to stop corrosion.  Than tumble it at your convenience.

[Ranch 13]

If you look on Apps web it describes the cleaning and it's the same as with bp
 Your probably going to have to push that 200 gr bullet to 1600 or so to get it even close to the sights
Keeping in mind the sights on that rifle are regulated for a 405 gr bullet at 13-1400 fps
 Yes you could fire a few of the coated bullets with a full charge of bp

[Coffinmaker]

  Ranch 13

I must strongly disagree.  I will admit, I have only been the Poster Boy for APP for about 10 Years, But there is absolutely no "special" treatment needed for brass use  with APP.  I don't even bother to "bottle" it at the range.  Take it home, dump in some water cut with 45% White Vinegar for about 20 minutes, rinse and dry.  DONE.  If you desire, after drying give the brass a little polish.  I use a DILLON with lizard litter for about 45 minutes.

Another disagree.  You will not get a harmonious result shooting coated bullets with Black Powder.  The fouling will be horrendous.  Black Powder REQUIRES a BP compatible lube (lots of it).  One can (quite successfully) run coated bullets with APP, which doesn't require ANY lube.

FORGOT:  PLUS ONE for Abilene.  APP is available in two granulations.  2F and 3F.  2F has large coarse grains and DOES NOT meter well thru powder measures.  Should be dipped.  3f meters just fine thru progressive powder measures.  Shooters World Multi Black should also meter well.

[Ranch 13]

So you do treat those app fired cases just like we do bp cartridges ,take them home deprime and clean them.
 You can fire the coated bullets with black. It is true that better results are there with lubed cast bullets, but as this isn't shooting for X ring count in a 1015 rounds for score at distance it will work

[Doc Holloman]

I think APP only comes in FFg and FFFg.  I might guess FFg for big bore but I have no experience with that.  At these distances it won't matter much.  FFg is chunky and doesn't meter well through most measures and needs to be dipped.

As for brass, I clean just like BP.  Rinse it with anything that has water in it, to stop corrosion.  Than tumble it at your convenience.

Abilene:  Do I need to do anything beyond tumbling to cases that I have previously used with smokeless (Unique) before loading them with Black or APP?

[King Medallion]

Do I need to do anything beyond tumbling to cases that I have previously used with smokeless (Unique) before loading them with Black or APP?

Apply fresh primer after resizing and belling.

[Abilene]

Yeah, don't forget a new primer. 

[Doc Holloman]

Yeah, don't forget a new primer. 

yeah, yeah.

So, I can assume whatever smokeless powder residue is left in the brass is a non-issue.

Had someone pick up a couple of cans of APP for me at Land Run, so we shall see what happens.

Thanks to everyone for the advice and for tolerating my newbie quesions.

[Doc Holloman]

Just an update for those who commented:  20 grains of APP gave with enough filler to touch the base of the 300gr coated bullet, gave me 775fps (+/- 10 fps) from my antique trapdoor carbine, which I figure is a safe load.  Aiming at the top of the target with the rear sight bottomed out, it consistently rings steel at 50 yards. 

I worked up the load using my modern H&R trapdoor carbine.  I started with the .45/70  case half full volume-wise -- which was 33.5 grains.  That gave me 1150fps, about the same as 11gr of Unique.

By the way, I was using the Garmin Chronograph.  If you haven't tried one -- they are really cool.

[King Medallion]

OOOFF! Them Garmins is spencive.

[Doc Holloman]

OOOFF! Them Garmins is spencive.

Yep, basically like buying another gun.