Removable Bushing

[Niederlander]

Gentlemen,  Is the Great Western II supposed to have a removable cylinder bushing, or is it pressed in?  Thanks!

[Abilene]

Pretty sure they are removeable.  I know my Cimarron Frontier (essentially the same gun) is removeable. 

[CatBacker88]

Pretty sure they are removable.  I know my Cimarron Frontier (essentially the same gun) is removable.

I know they are intended to be removable, but mine sure won't budge.  One of these days I'll make it a point to show it who's boss, but for now seems more trouble than it's worth. 

[Niederlander]

It came out easier than I thought it might.

[Coffinmaker]

Ever Body 

The short answer is yes.  The GW II cylinder bushing is removable.  Although you may not think it is.  When my Shingle was out, I actually made a special fixture to hold the cylinder while I used a fitted "Punch" and a Ball Peen to drive it out.  Then I dressed the cylinder bore and the bushing itself until I got a nice smooth cylinder spin.  The most frequent problem area is the bushing shaft right at the big herky (front) part of the bushing.  A real PITA it certainly be.

[CatBacker88]

It came out easier than I thought it might.

Okay, the suspense is killing me.  How did you go about it?

[Niederlander]

Put a cylinder pin in from the rear and just tapped it out.  No damage to pin or the bushing.

[45 Dragoon]

Put a cylinder pin in from the rear and just tapped it out.  No damage to pin or the bushing.

  Yup, that's how ya do it .  .  . 

[King Medallion]

Why would one take it out? Cleaning?

[45 Dragoon]

Why would one take it out? Cleaning?

Yes and installing shims to remove excess endshake.

Mike

[Coffinmaker]

FYI 

The original design intention was to eliminate what we now refer to as "Single Pointe Failure."  In the age of Gun Powder, it was thought the cylinder should rotate on two bearing surfaces.  In the event one fouled, the Cylinder would still be able to turn on the other.  Samuel Colt had no love for what he called "Strap Guns" and was not involved in the eventual design and production of the SAA.  SO:  Cylinder is suppose to turn on the Bushing, and the Cylinder Bushing is suppose to turn on the Cylinder Base Pin and the Base Pin should turn in the Frame, even though Pietta has eliminated the ability of the Base Pin to turn in the frame.

Fast forward to present day considerations.  Most shoot that Heathen Fad smokeless stuff which does not present a severe fouling problem, ergo, many, including Pietta don't see the necessity of the original Cylinder/Bushing/Base Pin/Frame relationship with regard to propellant.  Thus, the tight fitting Bushings.

If, however, your intent is to use Gun Powder, or a Suitable Substitute (APP anyone), one should insure the Cylinder/Bushing/Base Pin relationship is correct.  Pietta doesn't provide a correct Base Pin and I don't actually see it being a problem in overall function and shouldn't worry about the Pin turning in the Frame.

This Monday Morning Treatise has been sponsored by, and brought to you by CAFFEINE and Pastry.  Gunplumbers are actually those whom turn Caffeine into properly functioning Firearms and Cap Guns.  Burma Shave   

[Professor Marvel]

FYI 


This Monday Morning Treatise has been sponsored by, and brought to you by CAFFEINE and Pastry.  Gunplumbers are actually those whom turn Caffeine into properly functioning Firearms and Cap Guns.  Burma Shave

Thank You Coffin for the excellent monograph!

Plus, an actual testimant the the efficacy of caffiene!

Caffieine! Its whats for breakfast!

Edited to spell coffin correctly...

[CatBacker88]

Put a cylinder pin in from the rear and just tapped it out.  No damage to pin or the bushing.

OK, I'm the slow kid in the class.  I held both these parts in my hands yesterday and could not figure this out.  In other words you're saying hold the cylinder, ratchet side up, insert the cylinder pin, tap on the pin, and the bushing will eventually tap out.  So, that has to be the rear end of the pin going into the bushing until the little collar on the "front" end of the pin contacts the rear of the cylinder, within the little circle defined by the ratchet teeth.  Is that correct?

[Coffinmaker]

CatBacker 

Yes.  Sort of.  But I can't recommend that.  Often, that Bushing is real tight (I don't know why Pietta does that) and you can damage the Base Pin.  My suggestion is a Punch close to the same outside diameter of the Bushing at the Ratchet end, or failing that, a Bolt, same close diameter.  That way, when you Whackeda the bolt head, you don't damage anything.  Be sure the cylinder is supported in such a way, the Bushing is free to drop away.

Be sure to clean out the bore in the cylinder and then dress the Bushing.  I suggest chucking the bushing up in a drill motor (lacking a lathe) and wrapping some 600 grit wet/dry around it.  When you finish it up, use some 2000 grit wet/dry to polish it up.  Normally, the worst part of the fit is up adjacent to the "head" and may take the judicious application of a fine file, followed by polishing. 

[CatBacker88]

CatBacker 

Yes.  Sort of.  But I can't recommend that.  Often, that Bushing is real tight (I don't know why Pietta does that) and you can damage the Base Pin.  My suggestion is a Punch close to the same outside diameter of the Bushing at the Ratchet end, or failing that, a Bolt, same close diameter.  That way, when you Whackeda the bolt head, you don't damage anything.  Be sure the cylinder is supported in such a way, the Bushing is free to drop away.

Be sure to clean out the bore in the cylinder and then dress the Bushing.  I suggest chucking the bushing up in a drill motor (lacking a lathe) and wrapping some 600 grit wet/dry around it.  When you finish it up, use some 2000 grit wet/dry to polish it up.  Normally, the worst part of the fit is up adjacent to the "head" and may take the judicious application of a fine file, followed by polishing.

I will give it a whirl.  Seems silly to fit them so tightly they really don't do anything. 

[willy]

Thanks again guys!
You all came through...AGAIN !

It looked like a one piece bushing.
But it would not budge with a wooden dowel and a hammer.
I didn't want to use a metal punch for fear I would raise a burr of it.
Used the chili Dre pin inserted from the back of the cylinder((( don't know why my great wisdom did not tell me to try this!!!!)))))And  BINGO ,,bushing came out easy leash!

This isn't the first time I had to pick ya alls brains ,from fitting new cylinders when converting a gun to another caliber to info on open tops .
I thank you .

If any of you all are ever around Ohio...
Give me a holler and I will treat you to a steak dinner.

[CatBacker88]

Thanks again guys!
You all came through...AGAIN !

It looked like a one piece bushing.
But it would not budge with a wooden dowel and a hammer.
I didn't want to use a metal punch for fear I would raise a burr of it.
Used the cylinder pin inserted from the back of the cylinder((( don't know why my great wisdom did not tell me to try this!!!!)))))And  BINGO ,,bushing came out easy peasy!

This isn't the first time I had to pick ya alls brains, from fitting new cylinders when converting a gun to another caliber to info on open tops .
I thank you .

If any of you all are ever around Ohio...
Give me a holler and I will treat you to a steak dinner.

I will confirm, it does work.  In my case I used the cylinder pin inserted as described, placed the cylinder front end down over the top of a vice with a little bit of cardboard between it and the vice, then tapped the pin downward with a brass hammer.  It eventually came out, but it sure did NOT want to.  Afterward, I found, even after cleaning and oiling everything, the bushing did not easily go back were it goes without quite a bit of persuasion.  Well, at least I know it will come out.