Military holster for S&W American

[Capt'n Jack]

"This new design, the Smith & Wesson Model 3, was adopted by the US Army as the first cartridge-firing revolver in US service." as say the Library of Congress.  So, there must have been a holster for this gun but I have had no luck in finding anything about one.
Can anyone provide a source/information on this topic?  I have been amazed at the expertise found in CAS.  Thanks for the help in advance.  Capt'n Jack

[Major 2]

The S&W #3 the US adopted was the 1875 Schofield, the issue martial holster has
TWO stud holes in the flap, one to accommodate the SAA issue revolver, the other the S&W top break.

U.S. Army Model 1881 Cavalry Holster for Colt SAA or S&W Frontier Revolvers

I don't think a US military holster was patterned for the American Model as it had not been adopted as a Service arm per say.

[U.S.M.R.]

For the American model they used the same holster as the civil war.

[Johnny McCrae]

Back in 2017, I made a left-hand holster for my friends S&W to match his right-hand holster. I don't know if this is a Military holster. I did find a similar holster on Packing Iron.

Please excuse the lousy photos. The last photo is after dyeing but before the final finishing.

[Major 2]

Johnney, I believe your copy was called the Ropes Pattern Experimental Holster.

There was another similar shape without the flap, that Trailrider makes, the FECHET or at least he did...
I have one, shown here in my collection 

[Capt'n Jack]

The S&W #3 the US adopted was the 1875 Schofield, the issue martial holster has
TWO stud holes in the flap, one to accommodate the SAA issue revolver, the other the S&W top break.

U.S. Army Model 1881 Cavalry Holster for Colt SAA or S&W Frontier Revolvers

I don't think a US military holster was patterned for the American Model as it had not been adopted as a Service arm per say.

I do think you are mistaken here, in 1871 the Army purchased the No 3 (not Schofield) as it first cartridge revolver.  Not many were bought but it was officially adopted, likely for trials purpose, but beat the Colt by a couple of years.

[Major 2]

I'll stand corrected if the American was officially adopted.
I was aware it stood trials, but unaware of its acceptance.
I did find this...

The revolver was originally designed for the 1870 US Ordnance Board handgun trials, where it performed well enough that a contract for 1,000 guns for use in field trials was received by the company on December 28, 1870. The deliveries made under this contract took place in March of 1871. These "martial" #3 Americans appear to be somewhat evenly distributed within the serial range of 125 to 2199. One of the features that made the #3 so appealing to the Board was the "simultaneous" extraction system. By lifting a latch on the top of the frame the action of the revolver was opened and as the barrel was tipped down, a star extractor, powered by a ratchet mechanism, withdrew the cartridges from the cylinder, and expelled the empty cases. It was then an easy matter to replace any spent rounds, close the action and be ready to use the revolver again. By comparison, Colt's competing design, the Single Action Army, released in 1873, required a slow system of manual extraction of each spent case one at a time, with an equally slow loading process.

[St. George]

Handgun trials don't nesessarily equate to acceptance - nor do experimental holsters get adopted - they remain as they are until adoption and approval.

This was a time of wide experimentation across the board, with many vying for a Government Contract - not that many made the cut.

Scouts Out!

[Capt'n Jack]

The original quote was from the Library of Congress so I think it is correct.  I guess language does change over time so the meaning of the term adopted may have changed.  I do find that a holster must have been provided and an inquiring just what that would have been.  After all the soldiers had to have some means of carrying the gun.  I have some doubt about a civil war holster could have been used due to the 8 in barrel and the configuration of the gun is quite different.  Still looking for a picture/drawing of that holster.

[U.S.M.R.]

The holster adapted in 1863 was made to fit the Colt Army and the Remington Army. Before that they were made for the specific model. After the War they had 1000's of them. When the American was issued that was what they used. If you compare the Colt, Remington, and the American you will see that they are all pretty much the same size. Smith and Wesson the American Model by Pate discusses the use of the American and its a accuetrements by the U.S. Army.

[Capt'n Jack]

So I did dig through my collection of repro holsters and found a civil war revolver model.  The No 3 American did fit but somewhat tightly, though wetting the leather and fitting it to the gun would work. I accept that the loads of leftovers from the civil war were used for a lot of purposed and even modified to make them useful.

[Professor Marvel]

The original quote was from the Library of Congress so I think it is correct.  I guess language does change over time so the meaning of the term adopted may have changed.

No offense intended, just an amature librarian and historian digging into things here.

If one is to quote "something" (ie "Library of Congress") in order to be taken seriously by serious historian types, it is essential to provide links to an article and supporting references and provenance. Otherwise, the comment would not be taken seriously. Since I am a somewhat talented amature researcher, I was able to find the Library of Congress quote.

From here https://guides.loc.gov/american-firearms/gunmakers/smith-wesson
We see

" After the war, Smith & Wesson developed arms for the American frontier. It switched focus from pocket-sized revolvers to large frame revolvers using heavier caliber cartridges (such as the .44 S&W American). This new design, the Smith & Wesson Model 3, was adopted by the US Army as the first cartridge-firing revolver in US service."

Unfortunately, this snippet is only a brief compilation of the several books in the library of congress.
We can assume that the info is a summary gleaned from the several authors, and unfortunately no details or references or Provenance is offered.

The smith and wesson website offers a similar snip

"In 1870, Smith & Wesson introduced the Model 3, often regarded as one of the most iconic revolvers in American history. It was a top-break, single-action revolver chambered in .44 caliber. The U.S. Army adopted the 44 S&W American chambered Model 3 Schofield as standard issue, making it the first cartridge-firing revolver in U.S. service."

Noeither of these snips offer an author nor any supporting evidence.

Just because someone posts it on the web, dos not make it true.

Further searches on the web show almost identical verbage/ wording which can lead us to presume
That virtually all these posts came out of the same source.

This is like trying to base an historic analysis of the West on the stories printed in the "Time-Life Book Of The West"
Its all stroies with no actual evidence.

HOWEVER

This article provides more detailed info:
From https://collegehillarsenal.com/Rare-US-Marked-Smith-Wesson-Model-No-3-American-Oil-Hole-Variant

" The revolver was originally designed for the 1870 US Ordnance Board handgun trials, where it performed well enough that a contract for 1,000 guns for use in field trials was received by the company on December 28, 1870. The deliveries made under this contract took place in March of 1871. These "martial" #3 Americans appear to be somewhat evenly distributed within the serial range of 125 to 2199. One of the features that made the #3 so appealing to the Board was the "simultaneous" extraction system. By lifting a latch on the top of the frame the action of the revolver was opened and as the barrel was tipped down, a star extractor, powered by a ratchet mechanism, withdrew the cartridges from the cylinder, and expelled the empty cases. It was then an easy matter to replace any spent rounds, close the action and be ready to use the revolver again. By comparison, Colt's competing design, the Single Action Army, released in 1873, required a slow system of manual extraction of each spent case one at a time, with an equally slow loading process.

The 1,000 guns that were delivered under the 1870 Ordnance Department contract were primarily delivered with blued finishes and the usual smooth, oil finished walnut grips. However, 200 of the guns were delivered with nickel finishes and these guns are very scarce today. All the guns in the order were inspected by civilian sub-inspector Orville W. Ainsworth."

The level of detail is excellent, but still, we do not even have an author let alone provenance.

This article,
https://www.ammoland.com/2015/07/smith-and-wesson-model-3-revolver/#ixzz8gTQ0dY4v

The Other Gun of the American West
By Marc Cammack

Provides further info suggesting that the 1000 trial revolvers were NOT offficially adopted, but that the Schofield model was adopted after the improvements were incorporated

" Read more: https://www.ammoland.com/2015/07/smith-and-wesson-model-3-revolver/#ixzz8gTQTVvzK
Under Creative Commons License: Attribution
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The Smith & Wesson Schofield Model 3 Revolver

Due to the Smith & Wesson Model 3 Revolver's poor performance in the US Army's tests, Smith & Wesson sought to make improvements to the Model 3 that were desirable for the Army. The most important modification to the Model 3 was moving the latch from the barrel to the frame. The caliber was also changed to .45 Schofield, which could be fired through a Colt Single Action Army, but a .45 Long Colt could not be fired through a Schofield Model 3 revolver.

The fact that Schofield was could not fire the .45 Long Colt round proved to be a major logistical problem and it caused the revolver to have a short service life.

About 8000 Schofield revolvers were purchased by the US military. The revolver saw widespread use across the United States. Some military units such as the Buffalo Soldiers used Schofields during the Indian Wars. State militias were also issued the Schofield as a sidearm. Many Schofield revolvers were sold off as surplus through large dealers. The infamous James Gang was said to have used Schofields in their robberies. The Wells Fargo Bank Company purchased many surplus Schofield revolvers use by their agents. The Wells Fargo revolvers would have their barrels cut from 7 inches to 5 inches to make them easier to use."

Further articles out on the web offer more details on the Schofield, but not as much references as one would like.

Soooooo

We can surmise that the initial run of S&W No. 3 in .44 S&W American provided to the govt were
For Trials, and not "formally adopted" .

So, as St. George stated, they were purchased for trials but not accepted/adopted as a standard issue pistol.

The later run of modified Schofield Type in .45 Schofield caliber, WERE "accepted" as a substitute standard
according to Jacob Amery
https://www.gunsandammo.com/editorial/uberti-hardin-model-3-revolver-full-review/479253#replay
But again, no refernces or proof.


This book

https://books.google.com/books?id=xafOEAAAQBAJ&pg=PA122&lpg=PA122&dq=%22Smith+%26+Wesson+Model+3%22+was+adopted+by+the+US+Army&source=bl&ots=UfiA8dKpdx&sig=ACfU3U1vcPWn048bPlrp1jPqPiobjKamMQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjP9fDenrSHAxWoHjQIHaLgCIA4RhDoAXoECCUQAw#v=onepage&q=%22Smith%20%26%20Wesson%20Model%203%22%20was%20adopted%20by%20the%20US%20Army&f=false

Has much more detail, can be found here



https://books.google.com/books?id=xafOEAAAQBAJ&dq=%22Smith+%26+Wesson+Model+3%22+was+adopted+by+the+US+Army&source=gbs_navlinks_s

About the author (2004)

Jeff Kinard, PhD, is a professional writer. His published works include ABC-CLIO's Artillery: An Illustrated History of Its Impact.
Bibliographic information

Title   Pistols: An Illustrated History of Their Impact
Weapons and Warfare
Author   Jeff Kinard
Edition   illustrated
Publisher   Bloomsbury Publishing USA, 2004
ISBN   185109475X, 9781851094752
Length   416 pages

But i do not know if he quotes any refernces or supporting evidence



Thus, i always recommend taking any info on the web a big bag of salt until refernces are provided, checked, and verified.

[Tuolumne Lawman]

The S&W #3 the US adopted was the 1875 Schofield, the issue martial holster has
TWO stud holes in the flap, one to accommodate the SAA issue revolver, the other the S&W top break.

U.S. Army Model 1881 Cavalry Holster for Colt SAA or S&W Frontier Revolvers

I don't think a US military holster was patterned for the American Model as it had not been adopted as a Service arm per say.
 

Actually, more than 1,000  (1,000 to 1,500 depending on source) Americans were issued in 1870 and stayed in service until 1874-1875 when enough 1873 Colt SAA made it to the troops.  The 1863 model of the standard, butt forward holster was used for the Americans until 1872, when the 360 swivel model holster was issued.  It was designed to accomodate Americans, and Colt and Remington cartridge conversions (ABOUT 1,00 + of each were issued issued in 1871/2.

[U.S.M.R.]

I have read in several books that the 1871/72 holster was not well liked. It had a tendency to rotate upside down and loose the revolver.

[Tuolumne Lawman]

Very True.  I have heard that they often disabled the swivel.

[U.S.M.R.]

In some pictures of the era the troopers have their revolvers just stuck in their belts.

[Cap'n Redneck]

In some pictures of the era the troopers have their revolvers just stuck in their belts.

I think that was done to show off their guns to the photographer...
(ref.: the often seen photo of Wild Bill Hickok wearing a buckskin frock-coat with his two Colt Navies tucked in the belt and an unsheathed knife stuck behind the belt buckle.)

[Tuolumne Lawman]

This in really interesting.  All the literature says the .44 S&W American is a .440" case and the bulletin .432".  WELL I have a dozen original rounds of .44 S&W of assorted manufacturers, and ALL have bullet of .440" to .449", as wellas the case diameter of .440".  The rebated heel inside the case may be .432".  This means they would be a better performer than I original thought in .44 Colts.  In fact, I have several .44 Colt and .44 S&W that are the same diameter!

[Trailrider]

I have read in several books that the 1871/72 holster was not well liked. It had a tendency to rotate upside down and loose the revolver.

Not only that but the belt loop would sometimes pull loose from the body of the holster. Since company commanders could be held responsible for the loss of the pistol, they had their company saddlers to rivet or stitch the loop to the body of the holster.