Lets pitch in and buy Founders

[Professor Marvel]

Looks the the Wild Bunch messed up ... the agreement of ~march 2021, wherein "founders 2" took over operations from founders llc
And continued to run foundrs ranch as a shooting , film, and event venue, whilst negotiating to purchase....

Around Dec 2021 founders llc pulled out of the deal, apparently did not like the negotiated purchase price

and founders ranch closed up.
The ranch went on the market for over $3 mill ( 3.2 ish? )

Then off the market...
Then back on the market again:

Price history

Date   Event   Price

3/30/2022   Listed for sale.       $3,650,000

6/9/2022       Price change.      $2,999,000

11/18/2022   Price change.  $2,500,000

11/26/2023   Price change.  $1,950,000


Source: SFARMLS #202201005

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/74-Barton-Rd-Edgewood-NM-87015/264341482_zpid/


Looks like the Wild Bunch shoulda taken the first offer!

Hey maybe we should Wait a bit longer
and we can start a "Go Fund Me".
Play cowboy again.
Make our own movies.
"We can use my barn."  ( mickey rooney )

I wonder how all those "life members " feel...

Yhs
Prof grumpy

[Coffinmaker]

Well Golly Gee Whiz Mr Grumpbutt    A tiddly bit of Speculative Humor is always appreciated.  Unfortunately, Founders Ranch was a fools errand from the beginning.  I am fairly certain SASS has already taken a "Charge" for the place and written it off.

It started off as a "Black Hole" in the desert into which you throw money and never returned anything on the investment.  A lot like pouring a toilette full of $1000 dollar champagne then flushing it.

What Were They Thinking

[Professor Marvel]

Well Golly Gee Whiz Mr Grumpbutt    A tiddly bit of Speculative Humor is always appreciated. 
.....

Unfortunately, Founders Ranch was a fools errand from the beginning.  P
.....
What Were They Thinking

AHA! I dont just resemble that, I am the postergrump!

I can LITERRALY see what they were thinking....
1. California was already unfriendly, hadda move "somewhere"
2. New Mexico is still a firearm freindly state, and NRA Wittington has been here for ages, setting the precedent,
Along with the Boy Scout Philmont Ranch, both of which have had great history here.
(Btw i myself dreamed of going th Philmont as a kid, and Wittington for many many lustrum)
3. The ranch selected got the folowing near it walmart supercenter, couple NICE motels, several feed stores selling ammo, Smiths supermarket, quite a few other amenities for a rural town.
4. 4the ranch is literally 40 minutes from Albuquerque with all its amenities.
5 until 2022 Albuquerque and NM have been VERY gun friendly
6. They succumbed to the same hopeful mindset that all real estate speculators fall prey to:
It will expand and succeed if everybody does their part! I can point to such debacles as Pueblo West Colorado,
The Sallton Sea resorts and suburbs, several rural burbs built aro7nd the concept of "private plane commuting"
And several company towns that died as soon as that specific business dried up.

The old, if we build it they will come.

But theres not that much other stuff to visit once you are done shooting.
If you are extremely interested in "Indian Country" , visiting the Pueblos, visiting Hopi, Zuni, and Navajo land,
And ancient archialogical sites... there aint much here.

Others hav esaid they shoulda built it near Las Vegas - easy cheap airfare and lots of other stuff to do!
And they are right! Desert in nevada probably cost more that the Bunch wanted to spend.

They invented a cool hobby game.
They ruined a good hobby by turning it into a business
They tried to build an international business model based on a Very Small Niche hobby market.

Their heads got too big, they became too self important and did not listen to the user base.
They stifled outside ideas, stifled any opinions outside of the wild bunch. Even to the point of censoring
Any body who disagreed.

They kept increasing the cost of membership! With no real value added! I myslef kept saying
Well, this year I can budget in the cost.... And they increased the cost past the pain point.
And frankly, what value did they add? The excuse is "covering costs and insurance" . The rality is
Every single club outside of founders ranch found a way to play CAS without requiring SASS membership,
Usually thru a "one time" five dollar fee. For a person such as myself, who could not shoot more than once or twice a month, and who goes all winter without shooting an outdoor event, SASS membership was a overbearing expense that literally was not worth it. Especially since most clubs are a "shoot and leave " crowd. No point gearing up, dressing up, etc if I am only there for a 2 hour shoot and no visiting.....

Now, before anybody starts trying to prove "why I am wrong" .....
Look at any of the weekend or week long Rondesvous Events held all over the country.
These are hobby events, run by hobbyists. Not by Egomaniacs who want to make a living off it.
Most all these rondys are still reasonable and affordable, and except for specific stuff like national sanctioned matches, or civil war anctioned matches, are all easy going and affordable.

Sooooo

Let the opinions fly!

How much can a gofundme raise, i wonder.....

Yhs
Prof whatever

[Coffinmaker]

Ah Ha 

I just knew it.  I've known it all along.  A most worthy challenger for PosterGrump!!  Finally out of the closet are we.  Well Harrumpff to you two.  As it twer, sorta.

And, Unfortunately, you are entirely correctamundo.  There is no benefit of SASS membership for the Rank and File.  What??  You say??  An Alias list??  So what.  Oh I forgot, also a tiny little sticky sticker for your vehicle window to identify it as a theft magnet.  All that for 65 bucks.  Whoopie.  Oh, 65 bucks and rising.  And, let us not forget, SASS/CAS is slowly, inexorably imploding.

Couple Lustrum ago, there were a number of folks making a tidy little living off CAS.  For some (like me) is was a nice Side Hustle to fund toys.  In case nobody has notice, the numbers of those folks have dwindled to almost nothing.  Most Haberdasheries have closed up shop.  Grip makers have packed it in.  Lots of specialty gunsmiths have bagged it, others in all these activities have simply aged out with no replacements interested in the activity.  Let us also not ignore, the Firearms Manufacturers who have supported the game are reducing production and branching out into other realms.  The Hay day has left the building.

Membership, now with membership numbers well over a Hundred Thousand, are misleading to say the least.  If you were to wander around the country, counting active participants, I seriously doubt you could find 30,000, total active players.

The Players that started this Game (IT'S JUST A GAME) have all aged out.  The original Wild Bunch are gone.  Those who have followed are just short term custodians.  I doubt there is going to be a well funded retirement down the road.

It is a really fun GAME.  I'm gonna play as long as I am able and as long as there is someone hosting a match.

SASS needed to get out of California.  But boy did they ever blow it.  Should have found an already established existing venue.  Oh well.

In other news . . . .  they finally moved the Big Boat 

[Baltimore Ed]

Dropped my sass membership many years ago but I still play cas/WB/ BAMM every month [weather permitting]. Still dress up too. Got to see the elephant once, we had a very nice time but never went back. Honestly we enjoyed our trip to Cody for their sass state shoot better along with Yellowstone, Mt Rushmore and Deadwood. Lots of good memories from state and regional shoots over the years. Met so many truly fine cowboys and cowgirls. As Cher sang 'If I could turn back time.'

[River City John]

The problem is having a core of individuals to maintain the site after purchase.

[Abilene]

... All that for 65 bucks....

...and you can shoot at State or higher championships.  Texas championship match has been close enough for me to shoot without a hotel probably 7 of the last ten years.  I've only shot Winter Range once (went lotsa times with Cimarron) but now that I'm no longer caregiving I intend to do some more big matches.  So...for me it is worth it.

Here's another angle.  Remember inflation?  I shoot every weekend, average of 130 miles round trip.  Gas/ammo/match fees are running over $60 per match.  I think I can afford my SASS membership.

But I get it, different strokes...

[Major 2]

T'would be a Bee-Otch of a commute, from over here on the right coast 

[RRio]

Ah Ha 

I just knew it.  I've known it all along.  A most worthy challenger for PosterGrump!!  Finally out of the closet are we.  Well Harrumpff to you two.  As it twer, sorta.

And, Unfortunately, you are entirely correctamundo.  There is no benefit of SASS membership for the Rank and File.  What??  You say??  An Alias list??  So what.  Oh I forgot, also a tiny little sticky sticker for your vehicle window to identify it as a theft magnet.  All that for 65 bucks.  Whoopie.  Oh, 65 bucks and rising.  And, let us not forget, SASS/CAS is slowly, inexorably imploding.

Couple Lustrum ago, there were a number of folks making a tidy little living off CAS.  For some (like me) is was a nice Side Hustle to fund toys.  In case nobody has notice, the numbers of those folks have dwindled to almost nothing.  Most Haberdasheries have closed up shop.  Grip makers have packed it in.  Lots of specialty gunsmiths have bagged it, others in all these activities have simply aged out with no replacements interested in the activity.  Let us also not ignore, the Firearms Manufacturers who have supported the game are reducing production and branching out into other realms.  The Hay day has left the building.

Membership, now with membership numbers well over a Hundred Thousand, are misleading to say the least.  If you were to wander around the country, counting active participants, I seriously doubt you could find 30,000, total active players.

The Players that started this Game (IT'S JUST A GAME) have all aged out.  The original Wild Bunch are gone.  Those who have followed are just short term custodians.  I doubt there is going to be a well funded retirement down the road.

It is a really fun GAME.  I'm gonna play as long as I am able and as long as there is someone hosting a match.

SASS needed to get out of California.  But boy did they ever blow it.  Should have found an already established existing venue.  Oh well.

In other news . . . .  they finally moved the Big Boat 

Totally, 100% ,...

[Professor Marvel]

The problem is having a core of individuals to maintain the site after purchase.

I'll bet we could get some old farts living on social security to live there full time for room and board, basic ranch hands, Handle the livestock, fences, security, Keep the carnivourous feral hogs under control ,
make sure all the gates are locked and the sinage prominant. .

Such as

Danger! Mined Field

Danger Mountain Lions

Warning! Carnivorous Bears

Beware of Rattlesnakes

Coral Snake Crossing

Meat Eating Pecarry Gulch

Do Not Piss Off The Old Guys
They would rather shoot than fight

Velociraptor crossing


Yhs
Prof stuck at home

[Major 2]

 Karen Acadamy ?

Finishing school for entitled, excessively demanding middle-class white American women?

[Coffinmaker]

OH MY OH MY 

That "Karen Finishing Academy" is going to give me Knightmares for at least a week!!

[Professor Marvel]

Oh my
Leading to strange and less than harmonious thoughts.
I have been losing a lot of karmic brownie points the week...
Must be the moon.

Prof what?

[Coffinmaker]

Oh thanks a bunch Perfesser.  Now I gotta go out and purchase a box of "Brownie" mix.  Stir some Maraschino cherries inna batter too.

At least we're past "Girl Scout Cookie" season.

Harrumpff

[Boggus Deal]

A few things about Founders Ranch that most don't know. I've lived about 20 miles away for over 25 years. Was at the first match held there in September of 2004, Smoke in the Valley, a black powder championship. Worked on the ranch, ran clubs, hosted matches and spent a lot of time there.
Biggest issue with Founders is water, or rather, lack there of. There is one small agricultural well that might support 50 head of livestock. And that's a big might. All other water must be hauled in. Drilling a well would be very expensive and iffy. Chisler, a former Wild Bunch member, owned/owns property adjacent to the ranch. Drilled three wells 1000+ feet deep and never found a drop. And I'm not sure of the water rights owned by whoever owns the ranch.
Municipal water will likely never come close to the ranch. You could pay to have it run but, again, very expensive.
Next are the locals who don't really want it there. SASS over the years have run kind of roughshod over them with traffic issues and such. The back of the berms are quite close to the property line and adjacent owners have found stray bullets on their property.
And one thing I question is the Cowboy Chapel. My understanding is that it is its own non profit organization. As it sits right in the middle of the ranch, I'm not sure how ownership of it can be transferred.

[Boggus Deal]

The next issue around here is it's in the middle of a very depressed economy.

[1961MJS]

Hi

Well, it COULD BE WORSE.  The Amateur Trapshooting Association Grand American is shot in Sparta Illinois and have shot there since 2006.  The state of Illinois has tried to pass laws banning all semi-automatics, large gauge shotguns etc for years.  It's my understanding that the state sort of bribed them to come there.

https://www.kfvs12.com/2024/02/01/world-shooting-complex-sparta-host-grand-american-through-2036/

Later

[Professor Marvel]

Oh I still think we should buy it!

No water? We could turn it into. "Dune" theme park! Or the Star Wars desert planet Arakis Park!

Shoot Albuquerque has a hustroy of failed them parks!  Check out the Red Ryder theme park from 1960 called

Little Beaver Town

"The Red Ryder-themed Little Beaver Town would only be open for a few seasons, but the mystery of what happened to its buildings remains.

According to local amateur historian Roland Penttila, a retired Standard Oil manager named Howard H. Hull wanted to create a "postcard for the old west" in Albuquerque back in 1960. This proposed park would also feature Native Americans and was tentatively titled "First American Indian Land."

"Half of it was going to be the 'wild west'...and then half of it was going to be for the Pueblo Indians," said Penttila.

And they got the author of the Red Ryder comic involved, and even hired locals:

The park would also feature appearances from Red Ryder and Little Beaver themselves (performed by Dave Saunders and Troy Vicente, respectively).

Saunders was a tall, handsome ranch owner from the Chilili area. "He was very familiar with 'cowboying,' real cowboying. So he was a perfect person to play the fictional character Red Ryder. He would dress up in a white hat, a yellow kerchief, and a red shirt, always," said Penttila.

Vicente was a young boy whom Harman had met when he lived in Pagosa Springs. The boy would move down from northern New Mexico during the summer months and stay with the Harmans while Little Beaver Town was open.


So, as was envisioned, half of the park was a recreation of an old west town and the other half was a Native American village. Harman himself would sell his artwork in the Native American village. Several times a day, a stunt show would take place where an actor would rob the bank, Red Ryder would chase after him and a shootout would take place.


Fun facts,
And Troy Vicenti, a 13-year-old Jicarilla Apache, was to be Little Beaver. Troy was a family friend to the Harmons who lived in Pagosa Springs and had portrayed Little Beaver to Fred Harmon's Red Ryder in parades in New Mexico and Colorado.

David Saunders was best known for his portrayal of the Red Ryder Cowboy, he appeared in numerous movies and TV shows during his career as well as live stage shows. He also toured for Daisy Air Rifle portraying the Red Ryder Character showing the Red Ryder BB gun. Locally, he was affectionately known as New Mexico's Cowboy. David also contributed his time and image to countless charities.

But before he became the life-sized model for the fictional comic, Saunders was an honest-to-goodness wrangler. He used to herd Shorthorn-Hereford-Brahma into Magdalena and ride rough stock in rodeos. After receiving an ankle injury while riding and seeing a close friend paralyzed by a rodeo injury, he decided to end his career there. However, his legacy as a cowboy has lived on through his fame later in life as the one and only Red Ryder.

https://www.albuqhistsoc.org/programs/ahs-2020-2021-programs/little-beaver-town-1961/

https://www.krqe.com/news/albuquerque-metro/what-happened-to-albuquerques-short-lived-red-ryder-theme-park/



Then more stuff about the movies

https://www.b-westerns.com/rryder.htm

[Major 2]

Very COOL ! Professor

I can offer some incite to the scale train from Litl' Beaver Town where abouts.

Back in my gainfully employed designer days, the company I was employed by was the General Contractor for the IAAPA Expo - The Global Attractions Industry's huge trade show.
Held annually in Orlando each year in November, anybody and everybody who were manufactures, vendors designers or operators of Attractions, amusement or theme parks were represented.

Several years in a row a company would display ' the Litl' Beaver Town train engine"
One year, I believe it was 2011 the original was set up outside and rides were given on a track laid out in the Convention Centers VIP parking lot.
The Company made replicas of the model apparently, in 2017 they showed a green version.
I recall the Blue one in this photo from 2015 or 2016

[Cap'n Redneck]

Hmm...; the "4-2-4" wheel configuration on those small engines seems off to someone used to the classic "4-4-0"....