Ballistol?

[Froogal]

Does Ballistol work with black powder? Mostly I am curious about using it with a bore snake for quick cleanups between stages if necessary.

[Coffinmaker]

  Froogal   

Depends (no, not the ones in the plastic package).  First a CAVEAT.  I don't like Balistol.  At all.  Well, it's ok to soften stiff boots.  However:

It will work for your purpose (mostly).  I do however, recommend and champion the use of PAM.  Acronym.  Hydrogen Peroxide, Denatured Alcohol and Murphy Oil Soap in equal parts.  I put it in a little spray bottle.  Works a treat.

With PAM, you won't need a bore snake.  Just a squirt down the bore and spritz a patch on the ends of yer rod.  Done.  Put a drink cozy on yer spray bottle.  Hydrogen Peroxide doesn't like direct sunlight.

[Kent Shootwell]

I've been using black powder for a very long time and water  has been the base of my cleaning with and without additives. A few years ago I heard a lot of chatter about Ballistol  and gave it a try. I had never had a problem with rust on any gun up till then. After using it the bore of my rifle showed rust after it had cleaned with Ballistol. I wouldn't recommend using it to anyone!
IMG_0411 by Oliver Sudden, on Flickr

[Sedalia Dave]

Been using it for years and it is BP compatible.

For some applications there are much better options.

Straight Ballistol doesn't work well removing hard BP fouling. You need to mix it with water. AKA Moose Milk (1 or 2 parts Ballistol to 9 or 8 parts water)

For cleaning hard BP deposits I find PAM works better than Ballistol and Dawn Power Wash works better still.

[Froogal]

Just to clarify, I have been using ballistol to clean my guns after shooting smokeless powder, and it works great. Just squirt a generous amount down the bore, wait a few seconds, make 2 passes with a bore snake, and the bore is nice and shiny. I've done the same after shooting black powder, but I flush out the bore with hot water before using the snake. Again, the bore always comes out nice and shiny, but I've never tried the ballistol just by itself without flushing with water. Hot water is not particularly available at the shooting range.

[Major 2]

I used it, mostly the aerosol cans on smokeless cleanup.
The liquid, full strength on wood and leather as a finish works great. 

[Abilene]

The guy from Ballistol told me some years ago that to clean smokeless with it you need to let it soak for a bit - it doesn't work as fast as some other solvents.  I do use it full strength for cleaning/lubing smokeless, and I use either moosemilk or hot water for cleaning the BP guns, and straight Ballistol for lubing. Actually, I've gotten to where after a match with BP I just spray Ballistol into and on the outside of the guns and put them away, and clean them in a few days or a few weeks, whenever I get to it.  Since a lot of my guns are used with both smokeless and BP, cleaning them with Ballistol leaves them ready to shoot either one.

Some years ago John Boy (R.I.P.) did some non-scientific tests where he coated some random pieces of metal with various products to see which worked the best against rust.  I don't recall much detail, but the Ballistol treated metal did rust some.  I have not had any rust problems myself.

Major, I use it on wood and leather as well.  It will darken light colored leather.  I've used it for the oil finish on the last several grips I've refinished, and the grain really pops when it is still wet.

[Major 2]

Major, I use it on wood and leather as well.  It will darken light colored leather.  I've used it for the oil finish on the last several grips I've refinished, and the grain really pops when it is still wet.

Yes Sir

[Mako]

I think Abilene gave one of the best uses for it, that is to hold your dirty weapons until you get a chance to clean them.  there are several characteristics to Ballistol:

• It emulsifies in water, almost all other oils don't without a surfactant of some type.
  


• This means you can mix it with water and make very generous portions of it, and as Dave pointed out some call this Moose Milk, I literally have a bath of it.  When the water dries it leaves a film of oil, but you need a lot of oil left and it is slick and not something you want to put up in that condition.


• It also works as a secondary cleaner after you've cleaned with HOT water and soap (water is the "universal solvent" and the soap breaks up the oil).  If you dunk parts or spray them down with Moose Milk then you have an oily film on the surface and in some nooks and crannies you may not see. But I still would use another surface protectant, the Moose milk is your limited insurance policy in getting into areas you cannot easily get to.  If you had a tank of after-bluing oil dip it is basically the same thing. It holds water from the after blueing boil out and you can skim the milky partially emulsified mixture off of the surface the day after.  However I would be reticent to dip a firearm with BP fouling in a tank reserved for fine finished hot blued guns. But, if you had a dedicated one (the oils is not cheap).  I have used Diesel (dunked in a tank)  not for cleaning BP (but it works on other firearms), leaving a film, then wiped things down and used a better surface protector on the outside.


• If I don't have access to hot water, or soap and water I have cleaned with only Moose Milk and saved the better cleaning until the next time I shoot.  I would never do this at the end of the shooting season (if you slow down in the winter), I always strip and clean and thoroughly oil before putting them up for more than a month or two.
• It is not the best corrosion inhibitor, but you shouldn't use it as such except for limited time periods as Abilene pointed out.  I do the same thing, this gives me time to relax when I get home and clean in the next couple of days.
  


• This is a video from Todd's channel "Project Farm"  I like the way he does his test matrices and he is very consistent.  He rates it as a cleaner/protector.  His other videos are pretty good as well.


• I spray down the tubes of my shotgun at the end of the match and let them sit for ten minutes or more, then push a wad of paper towel through the bore and the melted plastic from my wads will push out like a snake skin.  I know one guy who is so lazy he sprays them, waits and then shoots smokeless loads through the shotgun to "blow" the plastic "skins" out.  I think I'll stick with a paper towel  and a big ole' 12ga Jag.


• In the summer when it is hot, I clean, spray down with Moose Milk, set the parts or complete weapons in the sun (the parts get HOT!), wipe them down and then use a rust preventative like EEZOX (or name your own poison here) as I reassemble everything.  For lubrication I have recently switched to my Mobil 1 Synthetic Grease and Mobil 1 Synthetic Oil lube mixture I use on everything else (not BP weapons) and even use the grease alone in the trigger area, I sort of fill it up.  So far no melted grease on my hands, but it is an experiment in progress.  I used to pretty much disassemble entire guns after a match, now I only do it about three times a year.   


• You don't have to worry about Ballistol soaking into and softening your wood like you have to be with conventional oil. And, Leather loves it 


• A tub of VERY hot water and lots of soap will do wonders for many things including incredibly fouled M240s, M249s, M60s, M2s, M242s, any sidearm, rifle/carbine, you name it.  I've watched guys spending hours trying to clean with CLP and then provide them with a wash tub full of scalding water, Mexican Soap (Lye) and fiber brushes and they come clean.   It's getting worse now...they want environmentally friendly cleaning materials.  Then there are the disposal forms and the environmental SOPs   

Ket Shootwell, I have a question for you, did you just clean with Ballistol or try to use it as a corrosion inhibitor?  Also if you don't FULLY clean the bore (which Ballistol without water won't) you will get some superficial surface rust like you show on your patches.  Water and Ballistol or water and soap, then a thin film of a decent petroleum based oil and it won't rust.  BP is hygroscopic, it doesn't cause rust but attracts the moisture that will.  And fouling is porous and allows air and moisture in which is how we get corrosion. 

~Mako
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[Abilene]

I forgot to mention, though I have done so before, but I HATE the smell of Ballistol.  I'd have to describe it as sort of a licorice.  It literally takes my breath away, so if I'm using it indoors I MUST have a fan blowing.  And it also leaves your skin soft. 

[Froogal]

I forgot to mention, though I have done so before, but I HATE the smell of Ballistol.  I'd have to describe it as sort of a licorice.  It literally takes my breath away, so if I'm using it indoors I MUST have a fan blowing.  And it also leaves your skin soft. 

YES!! I agree 100% with having a fan blowing.

[Major 2]

 The odor is some objectionable, more so the affect my sinuous. It causes me to cough and sneeze.
Developed in 1904, it had whale oil as an ingredient, I don't think it does anymore.

In the ensuing 120 years, many more modern products have been developed, but Ballistol is still around.




     

[Froogal]

I have heard that Hoppe's does not play well with black powder. Any opinions on that?

[Major 2]

It's not recommended for BP; it is for copper fowling.
Do not use it for nickeled guns, it will eat the copper base of the plating, and the nickel will peel off.

I do however, like the distinctive smell

[Coffinmaker]

Yea, well Ballistol no longer contains Wale Oil.  Its makeup is primarily Mineral Oil, some acidic stuff, alcohol and Hydrogen Peroxide.  No water.  The stuff STINKS to high heaven.

For clean-up of Black Powder and Subs, I am a champion of PAM.  Equal parts of Hydrogen Peroxide, Denatured Alcohol and Murphy Oil Soap.  Works a treat.  Cleans quite well.  However, after cleaning I do apply Mobil 1 motor oil to lubricate and prevent rust. 

For clean-up of Smokeless Powder, CLP.  I have found nothing better than CLP.  I happen to like "Break Free."  As done with BP and Subs, after cleaning I apply Mobil 1 Motor oil to lubricate and prevent rust. 

RUST   NEVER   SLEEPS 

[Major 2]

RUST   NEVER   SLEEPS 

Very true, but the cast and crew will do jail time 

[Coffinmaker]

                 

[Griff]

Water.  And what is the cleaning of guns between stages thing?  I clean guns between matches. 

[Froogal]

Water.  And what is the cleaning of guns between stages thing?  I clean guns between matches.

Based on my experience with black powder in my .45 Colt, the bore can become fouled after just one stage.

I am now ready to do the 44-40 thing, but haven't yet experimented with various combinations that MIGHT reduce that fouling.

[Coffinmaker]

Froogal 

45 Colt "what"    Pistol??  Rifle??  1911??  10 Pounder field Piece??

So, with Black Powder you're gonna get fouling to some extent regardless.  Black Powder fouling is cumulative.  Builds up a little every shot.  Doesn't matter what cartridge you use.  It does matter the "quality" of yer powder.  The other prime consideration is to keep the fouling soft.  Hence, we like lotza lube.

Cartridges:  45 Colt and other straight wall cartridges will foul the chamber and in many cases the action from "Blow-By" of gun gasses.  Icky Foo, unless precautions are taken.  Blow-By can be eliminated by annealing cases.  You can also eliminate blow-by in 45 Colt by fire forming 44-40 cases to 45s.  Unfortunately, there is no other case choice for the other straight wall cases.  Anneal them.

Annealed cases will not affect the fouling lift in the bore.  Only keeps the chamber and the action components clean, free running and sanitary.

Last Choice.  Switch.  Switch to APP.  APP requires no lube and the bore fouling is not cumulative.  Each shot cleans out the previous.  APP can and will foul the chamber and action though, if enough Blow-By is present.  Annealing and or 44-40 fire form'd will probably be required.