Uberti VS. Pietta -Video

[RRio]

[45 Dragoon]

I would add that another frame difference would be that  the Pietta won't handle any +p loads like the Ubertis can. I know mentioning this may seem petty  but someone will  eventually say a Ruger is better. So, as a preemptive measure,  if you have a 45acp cylinder for your revolver,  don't fire any +p's unless you have an Uberti.  It's hard to believe that an additional  2,000 psi is the "go / no go" for the Pietta ( obviously,  no +p 45C rounds either). Wish I had my El Patron  back  .  .  .

Mike

[Coffinmaker]

Oh Wow 

Another HACK who has learned to make a Video.  I lasted almost three minutes before I wrote this clown off.  He doesn't even know the correct nomenclature of the 45 Colt cartridge.  He is using the "wrong" Pietta for his "comparison."  GW II by Pietta also has a removable base pin bushing.

I admit, that's where I quit.  I just couldn't stomach the dude.

To be somewhat argumentative, neither sample example should be considered "safe" for +P.  The frame has nothing to do with it.  The consideration is the thickness of the cylinder walls.  Simply too thin for the pressure.

[45 Dragoon]

  Well actually .  .  .   
the Uberti  cylinders as well as USFA cylinders ( just happened to have one in the shop) are larger than Pietta cylinders which are the same size as Colt  SAA cylinders.  The larger Uberti cylinders can in fact handle 45acp +p's  and 45C +p's  ( check out Brian Pearce's article about the 45C +p's ( USFA's are mentioned as well)). Anyway,  the cylinders are fine and the frames they're in can support them.
   The difference isn't only in the size of the cylinder, but the frames as well. The Pietta frame is also the same size as the Colt and neither can handle the +p ammo mentioned.  The larger frame of the Uberti is an ample support system for the cylinder and the ammo.
  My own experience  with my Pietta made Frontier with dual cylinders allowed me to "test fire" 45acp +p's  before I shot them in my (Kirst) converted 1860 Uberti. I wanted to get some idea of what to expect before firing them in the '60.  Five rounds of Hornady Critical Duty +p's  went down range with a rather attention getting  report along with recoil  that made me question  for an instant if I should continue. That was the whole reason for going to the range so I continued.  First 5 was no big deal so the remaining rounds went down range as well with excellent accuracy!! I was extremely pleased!! So, that was 5 through the Pietta Frontier  / 15 through the '60. Since that time, about 400 of the 1500 rounds through the '60 have been +p's.
  After I got home the first thing I did was to swap  the cylinder in the Pietta back to the 45C cyl.  Started putting rounds in and the cyl couldn't rotate a round past battery!! I couldn't believe it!! 5 rounds BENT the frame of my Pietta Frontier!!!  Next day I had to open up more headspace so the 45C  rims would  cycle through. Needless to say, it hasn't been to the range since!!  It's a beauty to look at but just no desire to take it to the range   .  .  .

   So, if the frame  can't support the cylinder that can .  .  .  best to stick with tier 1 loads.

Oddly enough,  the only Remington I have is a Pietta  ( 5 1/2" bbl)  and of course has a 45C Kirst equalizer gated conversion in it. The top strap on those is substantially thicker and wider than the '73 offerings. Wouldn't that be something if the Remington turns out to be the "real" beast in the Pietta lineup?!!!

To be continued  .  .  . 

Mike

[Coffinmaker]

Well Actually,

I do agree with the Dragoon.  The USFA and the Uberti (USFA copied Uberti) cylinders and frames are some larger than PIETTA or Colt.  Atza Fact.

However, after a good hard look at both Colt and Pietta cylinders, I was never tempted to venture into the realm of "Plus P."  Is obvious the cylinder walls are too thin for "Hot Rodding" and running hot load thru them is a Fool's Errand.  Likewise, I was also never tempted to run +P level ammunition thru Uberti either.  That also made no sense as I had the perfect vehicle for a Hot Rod.  Ruger Blackhawk.  Along with the Blackhawk, I have great faith in Kirst cylinders.  Kirst take a licking and keep right on ticking.

Just because one can get away with something, doesn't necessarily mean one should.

[45 Dragoon]

Well, I'm not trying to "get away with something",  .  .  . that's a little crass .  .  . 
I'm simply stating my particular findings which align with "known" information as far as loads are concerned in revolvers being discussed.  Too bad it may not align with some folks "preconceived" notions of the "favored " SA. Brian Pearce has written many articles explaining his findings  and apparently has pressure reading equipment to include information about his own findings.  That being the case and knowing what I know about the revolvers in question ( I currently own the mentioned Pietta Frontier and previously  owned an Uberti El Patron) I actually have first hand experience  with both.  I do wish (and I may can borrow my old El Patron !!)  I had known  what I know now  when I had the El Patron so I could shoot the 45C +p's  as well as the 45acp +p's.  I'll  try and make that happen.
  I figured  the "I gotta Ruger blah blah blah  would rear it's "nauseous" head which even Ruger's instructions say  not to use reloads  .  .  .   reckon anyone  loads  "Ruger only"  loads for their Blackhawks / Super Blackhawks?  Well,  so much for that !!! Lol !!
My interest isn't in finding the Ruger "equivalent" (Heaven forbid!!).  I'm  just  answering the  Uberti  vs Pietta  thing so .  .  . like it or not, in my opinion, after owning both,  the Uberti  strength,  better action parts,  wins for me.  Funny how Ruger is always mentioned because of it's  "strength " but if any  others can step over the tier 1 loads it's  "verboten" to say anything about it !!!
I have Rugers and like Rugers but it's fun to shoot other SA's that can "nip at their ankles",  be it Top strap  versions or open-top versions.   Nobody is forcing anybody to do anything,  it's just information  .  .  . 

Mike

[RRio]

Let's go easy, guys. Let's not get a fuss going over which gun is better. We all have our favorites. Let's keep everything friendly.

[45 Dragoon]

I would agree but that's usually what happens when there's a "blank" vs "blank" thread.  If you're going to shoot only tier 1 loads,  there wouldn't be any problem. Nobody likes to come back from the range with a bent revolver and I'm sure some folks may venture into shooting  some "warm" loads ( they may not own a Ruger).  If  I'd known my Pietta wasn't  capable of even a few +p's,  I'd have forgone the "getting to know 45acp +p's" in my testing of the '60 platform.   For the same reason,  I think it best to at least mention that difference  .  .  .  maybe for someone it may make the decision a little easier.  Again,  it's just information.

Mike

[Coffinmaker]

Well heck.  A quick little brawl is to be expected as Mike has said.  There are, of course, arguments to be had by and for either side.  There is absolutely nothing wrong with sharing information either.

As a point of fact, I'm really curious where Mike's Pietta frame actually pulled and by how much??  Probably a combination of very small increments in several places but I are curious.

It is also interesting that Mike and I have both dabbled with heavier loads in our 1860 Kirst projects.  My principal concerns have always centered on the cylinder as being the weakest link and the Kirst cylinder is not weak by any stretch.  Anyway, Mike and I can Play Nice and Share Toys

The Other Mike

But I am NOT sharing my PB-n-J SANDWICH !!

[Major 2]

Ah, go ahead

next up  Ford VS Chevy     

Then Original Series VS Next Generation    Kirk VS Picard 

[Reverend P. Babcock Chase]

Howdy Pistoleros,

Hey RRio, it's just an internet gunfight (the safest kind). We're all friends here, right?

Rev. Chase

[45 Dragoon]

Friends of course! 
Chevy
Mary Ann
Uberti  .  .  . OOOOPS 

Mike

[45 Dragoon]

Oh, BTW,  I didn't measure since didn't have any "before" measurement. Of course I didn't know anything had happened until I realized the 12 o'clock position of the cartridge case was contacting the recoil shield.  Of course I had go to the shop and rectify the situation and get correct headspacing back.
  If you view the revolver from the side, you can tell there's a slight dip (not me!  ) at the rear of the top strap  .  .  .  showing less space between back of cyl to top strap  with more space between the front of cyl to the top strap.
  Not afraid to shoot it of course  ( it's not THAT bad!!) just disappointed that it happened at all.

Mike

[Major 2]

Rachel or Monica ... 

[Tronicst1]

Well, I'm not trying to "get away with something",  .  .  . that's a little crass .  .  . 
I'm simply stating my particular findings which align with "known" information as far as loads are concerned in revolvers being discussed.  Too bad it may not align with some folks "preconceived" notions of the "favored " SA. Brian Pearce has written many articles explaining his findings  and apparently has pressure reading equipment to include information about his own findings.  That being the case and knowing what I know about the revolvers in question ( I currently own the mentioned Pietta Frontier and previously  owned an Uberti El Patron) I actually have first hand experience  with both.  I do wish (and I may can borrow my old El Patron !!)  I had known  what I know now  when I had the El Patron so I could shoot the 45C +p's  as well as the 45acp +p's.  I'll  try and make that happen.
  I figured  the "I gotta Ruger blah blah blah  would rear it's "nauseous" head which even Ruger's instructions say  not to use reloads  .  .  .   reckon anyone  loads  "Ruger only"  loads for their Blackhawks / Super Blackhawks?  Well,  so much for that !!! Lol !!
My interest isn't in finding the Ruger "equivalent" (Heaven forbid!!).  I'm  just  answering the  Uberti  vs Pietta  thing so .  .  . like it or not, in my opinion, after owning both,  the Uberti  strength,  better action parts,  wins for me.  Funny how Ruger is always mentioned because of it's  "strength " but if any  others can step over the tier 1 loads it's  "verboten" to say anything about it !!!
I have Rugers and like Rugers but it's fun to shoot other SA's that can "nip at their ankles",  be it Top strap  versions or open-top versions.   Nobody is forcing anybody to do anything,  it's just information  .  .  . 

Mike

As far as quality goes, when I bought my Uberti Dalton the fit & finish was far better than the last Ruger I bought. 

[Mogorilla]

Oh, Ford, Mary Ann, Phoebe!, TOS and Kirk!

I own an Uberti Henry, but a metric tonne of Pietta pistols.   

[45 Dragoon]

Kirk,
Kirst  .  .  .
and, just something about Jenn .  .  .

Mike

[RRio]

Ah, go ahead

next up  Ford VS Chevy     

Then Original Series VS Next Generation    Kirk VS Picard 

Jeep
Star Trek: Strange New Worlds
Picard  (Shatner did not appreciate what he had.)

[Cholla Hill Tirador]

  Well actually .  .  .   
the Uberti  cylinders as well as USFA cylinders ( just happened to have one in the shop) are larger than Pietta cylinders which are the same size as Colt  SAA cylinders.  The larger Uberti cylinders can in fact handle 45acp +p's  and 45C +p's  ( check out Brian Pearce's article about the 45C +p's ( USFA's are mentioned as well)). Anyway,  the cylinders are fine and the frames they're in can support them.
   The difference isn't only in the size of the cylinder, but the frames as well. The Pietta frame is also the same size as the Colt and neither can handle the +p ammo mentioned.  The larger frame of the Uberti is an ample support system for the cylinder and the ammo.
  My own experience  with my Pietta made Frontier with dual cylinders allowed me to "test fire" 45acp +p's  before I shot them in my (Kirst) converted 1860 Uberti. I wanted to get some idea of what to expect before firing them in the '60.  Five rounds of Hornady Critical Duty +p's  went down range with a rather attention getting  report along with recoil  that made me question  for an instant if I should continue. That was the whole reason for going to the range so I continued.  First 5 was no big deal so the remaining rounds went down range as well with excellent accuracy!! I was extremely pleased!! So, that was 5 through the Pietta Frontier  / 15 through the '60. Since that time, about 400 of the 1500 rounds through the '60 have been +p's.
  After I got home the first thing I did was to swap  the cylinder in the Pietta back to the 45C cyl.  Started putting rounds in and the cyl couldn't rotate a round past battery!! I couldn't believe it!! 5 rounds BENT the frame of my Pietta Frontier!!!  Next day I had to open up more headspace so the 45C  rims would  cycle through. Needless to say, it hasn't been to the range since!!  It's a beauty to look at but just no desire to take it to the range   .  .  .

   So, if the frame  can't support the cylinder that can .  .  .  best to stick with tier 1 loads.

Oddly enough,  the only Remington I have is a Pietta  ( 5 1/2" bbl)  and of course has a 45C Kirst equalizer gated conversion in it. The top strap on those is substantially thicker and wider than the '73 offerings. Wouldn't that be something if the Remington turns out to be the "real" beast in the Pietta lineup?!!!

To be continued  .  .  . 

Mike

  If 5 rounds of +P 45 ACP ammunition REALLY, and I mean REALLY bent the frame, I'd send the revolver back for warranty work. Nowhere in the Pietta manual does it say anything about NOT using +P ammunition, all the manual says is to use factory ammunition and the ammunition you used is just that.

 

Further, the difference in MAP in 45 ACP and 45 ACP+P is but 2000 psi. So if Pietta builds revolvers that are OK with 21,000 psi but have their frames bent with 23,000 psi (which I HIGHLY doubt), then again, there is a problem with their revolver.
  I really doubt that chamber pressure has as much to do with potentially bending a frame as would case head thrust. If this is the case, imagine what would happen when one fired a 250 gr. lead SWC @1000+ fps from the 45 Colt cylinder, a load that is within SAAMI guidelines of 14,000 psi.

[Tronicst1]

  Well actually .  .  .   
the Uberti  cylinders as well as USFA cylinders ( just happened to have one in the shop) are larger than Pietta cylinders which are the same size as Colt  SAA cylinders.  The larger Uberti cylinders can in fact handle 45acp +p's  and 45C +p's  ( check out Brian Pearce's article about the 45C +p's ( USFA's are mentioned as well)). Anyway,  the cylinders are fine and the frames they're in can support them.
   The difference isn't only in the size of the cylinder, but the frames as well. The Pietta frame is also the same size as the Colt and neither can handle the +p ammo mentioned.  The larger frame of the Uberti is an ample support system for the cylinder and the ammo.
  My own experience  with my Pietta made Frontier with dual cylinders allowed me to "test fire" 45acp +p's  before I shot them in my (Kirst) converted 1860 Uberti. I wanted to get some idea of what to expect before firing them in the '60.  Five rounds of Hornady Critical Duty +p's  went down range with a rather attention getting  report along with recoil  that made me question  for an instant if I should continue. That was the whole reason for going to the range so I continued.  First 5 was no big deal so the remaining rounds went down range as well with excellent accuracy!! I was extremely pleased!! So, that was 5 through the Pietta Frontier  / 15 through the '60. Since that time, about 400 of the 1500 rounds through the '60 have been +p's.
  After I got home the first thing I did was to swap  the cylinder in the Pietta back to the 45C cyl.  Started putting rounds in and the cyl couldn't rotate a round past battery!! I couldn't believe it!! 5 rounds BENT the frame of my Pietta Frontier!!!  Next day I had to open up more headspace so the 45C  rims would  cycle through. Needless to say, it hasn't been to the range since!!  It's a beauty to look at but just no desire to take it to the range   .  .  .

   So, if the frame  can't support the cylinder that can .  .  .  best to stick with tier 1 loads.

Oddly enough,  the only Remington I have is a Pietta  ( 5 1/2" bbl)  and of course has a 45C Kirst equalizer gated conversion in it. The top strap on those is substantially thicker and wider than the '73 offerings. Wouldn't that be something if the Remington turns out to be the "real" beast in the Pietta lineup?!!!

To be continued  .  .  . 

Mike

#1 I have an Uberti Dalton in 45 Colt that has a frame on it that looks to be on the slim side but this may be due to the Forging of the frame
making a thicker frame unnecessary.

#2 if your frame is bent what does your cylinder look like.

#3 If you stopped and hesitated after the first +P round got your attention and decided to continue with more +P rounds then I am glad that I
don't stand anywhere near you when you shoot your guns.

#4 if the manual doesn't inform you that you can shoot +P ammunition then why would you shoot it. A manual doesn't have to say " DO NOT USE +P AMMUNITION "
If the Manufacturer doesn't want you to use it. You are supposed to be smart enough to do that for yourself